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Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

asahilinux.org

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Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#351

Post by Danox »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #211
kakwa_ wrote: post #71

While I absolutely love the technical write-up from the Asahi team, and being absolutely impressed by their accomplishment, to the risk of being an overly negative contrarian, I remain a bit skeptical. I'm concerned that after all these years, it's still a separate project and not an effort sustained directly within the kernel mainline and mainstream distributions like Ubuntu, Debian or Fedora. These kinds of reverse…

It's disappointing that so much talent is wasted trying to support user hostile Apple hardware.

What is disappointing? Is that a three ex Apple engineers could get a license from Arm and design chips there’s got to be talent in Europe to do that and to also follow up and do something with Linux as a OS. It just baffles me why all this effort is spent trying to be a parasite on someone else’s chip the talent is there in Europe to go the full distance an offer something that isn’t dependent upon someone else?

I am rooting for someone to do something from the ground up in Europe. Maybe it’s gonna take someone that’s still in junior high, high school, or college who doesn’t know any better and is open towards breaking out of the boundaries.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#352

Post by bigyabai »

walterbell wrote: post #295
internet2000 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The developers for their platforms. Which, crucially, Linux developers are not.

Apple Macbooks support virtualization of Linux on MacOS.

That's a low bar. Microsoft does too, with a much better hypervisor.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#353

Post by jauntywundrkind »

com2kid wrote: post #170
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally yes, but the community around MLX has rallied pretty strong. Sure your disk io is awful, and your OS is buggy, but at least ML compiles and works on a modern OS. Works like rocm seem so close. But you need either the pre-compiled packages or 2+ year old Ubuntu to compile them. https://github.com/ROCm/TheRock/issues/3477

I'm still on Ubuntu 22 because everything works. Got enough packages that still request I don't use wayland that I don't want to risk an upgrade. Sad because I really want the better One drive integration that Ubuntu 24+ comes with.

I sympathize. But it seems so weird to me to be a Linux open source adopter, who is also so am conservative. Heck yes KDE, sway, Niri, and so many other new desktops are so so so nice. I can't imagine staying in the old world.

But who should AMD for example target? It seems obvious to me. Personally I think if you are trying to make tools like ai acceleration software, you should 100% be focused on the alpha geeks. The people who want bleeding edge new stuff, the people who will take that and roll with it and expand your ecosystem are almost entirely the early adopters. The progressives are the social tastemakers, are the point on the adoption curve where cool and good happens.

It's infuriating watching AMD bungle their chances by targeting people interested in ancient technology, for their incredibly advanced powerful rich new stack. What are you doing?!?! There needs to be a starting point for the alpha geeks, those who are willing.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#354

Post by jauntywundrkind »

Danox wrote: post #346
wtallis wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing rude about it; the Nuvia CPU core is pretty much the entire selling point of the Snapdragon X Elite product family. Everything else on those chips is underwhelming. But the provenance of the CPU core is really irrelevant to the question of Linux support, which is gated by driver support for the rest of the SoC, which didn't come from Nuvia. So focusing on the Nuvia aspect is a bit of a red herring.

Qualcomm may be a tech company, but they behave more like a pack of lawyers (probably the best in the tech business at extracting money” double dipping”) they will never support Linux in any usable way, not without a huge ongoing fee/payola on their so called partners.

That certainly is what their past looked like!

And in many ways that probably is true. But it's not uninform. There's a lot of places where Qualcomm is clearly working very hard to get upstream, to get mainline support. https://www.phoronix.com/search/Qualcomm

I was super impressed with their work offloading sound to a USB sound card, to let the CPU sleep more. Really wild subsystem to build. And they did it! Kept at it! Really cool stuff to have in the kernel.

They've hired some good people for GPU support, which is rad. I feel like Qualcomm is so so close to having a great system people can genuinely love. But there's always some missing pieces, it's always an end result that is far far far quirkier and more difficult than a PC would be. Some of the other comments in this thread give me some hope that there is a more normal boot chain here at least, that it's other troubles. But it's hard. And Qualcomm only has so much power over what their OEM partners actually build.

Qualcomm is the only name in wifi right now for OpenWRT like systems. MediaTek looks good, is present too, but supposedly their drivers are just a total garbage fire, buggy & crash tastic beyond words.

I think it's important we reassess our old biases. And give some credit where due. Qualcomm has an absolutely forsaken reputation & their lawyerliness is a thing of legend, forbidding as heck. But there are also a lot of signs that at least some of the company is tired of making chips that are utterly unsupportable, and has some real drive towards good open source support. Thank you, warriors of light there.

Really hoping we see some Linux running Snapdragon X2 Elite Extreme units in the next 12 months. Looks like an amazing system! Good job engineering the new cores ya'll!! Amazing performance.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#355

Post by Danox »

ezst wrote: post #268
porphyra wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new Framework 13 Pro is undeniably really nice and a huge step up from the earlier Framework laptops. But the sad reality is that x86 processors are falling behind in performance. The Intel Core Ultra X7 358H is a whopping 35% slower than the M5 Pro (15 CPU 16 GPU) in both single core and multicore benchmarks, while the Framework 13 Pro with the 358H costs about the same as the Macbook Pro 14 with the M5 Pro ($22…

> But the sad reality is that x86 processors are falling behind in performance. The Intel Core Ultra X7 358H is a whopping 35% slower than the M5 Pro 35% is the generational difference between the M4 pro to the M5 pro¹. Don't drink Apple marketing koolaid: this has less to do with x86 falling behind than it has to do with Apple using their stash of gold to outbid the intel/AMD competition out of the latest TSMC capac…

[dead]

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#356

Post by walterbell »

bigyabai wrote: post #352
walterbell wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple Macbooks support virtualization of Linux on MacOS.

That's a low bar. Microsoft does too, with a much better hypervisor.

Yes, Linux developers are officially supported by both Apple and Microsoft, with Microsoft developers being a major contributor to upstream Linux and WSL2 having grown into a capable Linux development environment.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#357

Post by rasz »

cromka wrote: post #328
rasz wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By selling laptops to users who will never spend on highly profitable recurring revenue stream Apple would be depleting precious Ram stock for tiny one time profit.

So you're suggesting company would rather not sell a product now but rather wait until a "proper" Apple customer is ready for an upgrade? Product that has a significant profit margin upfront? Also, have you heard about Apple's multi-billion RAM contracts they sign every few years to lock in the prices and supply?

It has already been reported Apple ran out of parts for NEOs. M4 minis are sold out. High end Mac Studio configs have been cancelled. Yes Apple does feel the crunch.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#358

Post by rasz »

yndoendo wrote: post #343
rasz wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine LCD screen capable of emitting from IR to UV and people up in arms because laptop vendor software limits output to visible spectrum.

I would not agree with your analogy. [0] Turns out the movie industry actually uses infrasound in horror movies. [1] It might also explain why people think old buildings are haunted. [2] If Apple only focuses on audible sounds, their devices lack the ability to maximize the thrill of horror movies. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound [1] https://nightscapestories.com/the-art-of-sound-design-horror... [2] htt…

Tell me more about laptops and phones sporting 12 inch speakers, not that low frequencies are the problem here.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#359

Post by kakwa_ »

Danox wrote: post #348
kakwa_ wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have been happy if all that happened like 3 years ago. Now, it's 5 years in, the Asahi effort is losing momentum. Core developers are going on to do other things, significant chunks (3922 commits) are still not merged upstream and no major distribution has an official build. Sorry, but in my opinion, the project is at risk of becoming a dead and unmaintained branch. Don't get me wrong, the Asahi team did an i…

It is a dying quail effort doomed from the start if those three ex Apple engineers could get a license from Arm to design chips it is still baffling why no one else across the whole wide world didn’t follow in their footsteps. There is a Linux market. I’m just shocked that it has not happened. With all the money flying around for AI data-centers you would think that this would be a more worthwhile effort? Where is th…

I feel like more money would not have helped that much. Maybe it would have enabled a few of the devs to work on it full time, but I doubt it would have brought more people into the project.

I would indeed love the EU to step in but not in the way you are probably thinking.

I would rather see such effort being made unnecessary through a law forcing the manufacturers to provide enough information/specification or even code for alternative/after-market OSes to be viable on the devices they produced.

And also, if possible, mandate a degree of standardization (looking at you Android phones and ARM SBCs) enabling commonality of efforts when supporting a device class.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#360

Post by [deleted] »

walterbell wrote: post #356
bigyabai wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a low bar. Microsoft does too, with a much better hypervisor.

Yes, Linux developers are officially supported by both Apple and Microsoft, with Microsoft developers being a major contributor to upstream Linux and WSL2 having grown into a capable Linux development environment.

[deleted]
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