Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

buchodi.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 668 posts

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#351

Post by cicko »

nikitaga wrote: post #217
Imnimo wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to me that OpenAI considers scraping to be a form of abuse.

Scraping static content from a website at near-zero marginal cost to its server, vs scraping an expensive LLM service provided for free, are different things. The former relies on fairly controversial ideas about copyright and fair use to qualify as abuse, whereas the latter is direct financial damage – by your own direct competitors no less. It's fun to poke at a seeming hypocrisy of the big bad, but the similarity…

Interesting how other people's cost is "near-zero marginal cost" while yours is "an expensive LLM service". Also, others' rights are "fairly controversial ideas about copyright and fair use" while yours is "direct financial damage". I like how you frame this.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#352

Post by Razengan »

MyNameIsNickT wrote: post #49

Hey! I'm Nick, and I work on Integrity at OpenAI. These checks are part of how we protect our first-party products from abuse like bots, scraping, fraud, and other attempts to misuse the platform. A big reason we invest in this is because we want to keep free and logged-out access available for more users. My team’s goal is to help make sure the limited GPU resources are going to real users. We also keep a very close…

> we want to keep free and logged-out access available for more users.

And THANK YOU for that!

Being able to use ChatGPT and Grok without signing in is a big part of why I like those services over Gemini etc.

Hell, dummy Claude won't even let me Sign-In-with-Apple on the Mac desktop, even though it let me Sign-UP-with-Apple on the iPhone! BUT they do support Sign-In-with-Google!!? What in the heavenly hell is this dumbassery

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#353

Post by SubiculumCode »

MyNameIsNickT wrote: post #49

Hey! I'm Nick, and I work on Integrity at OpenAI. These checks are part of how we protect our first-party products from abuse like bots, scraping, fraud, and other attempts to misuse the platform. A big reason we invest in this is because we want to keep free and logged-out access available for more users. My team’s goal is to help make sure the limited GPU resources are going to real users. We also keep a very close…

In long threads in chatgpt, it grinds to a halt in both Chrome and Firefox. Please fix

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#354

Post by davidkunz »

p-e-w wrote: post #346
vlovich123 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still doesn’t explain why you can’t even start typing until that check proceeds. You could condition the outbound request from being processed until that’s the case. But preventing from typing seems like it’s just worse UX and the problem will fail to appear in any metrics you can track because you have no way of measuring “how quickly would the user have submitted their request without all this other stuff in t…

Many cloud products now continuously send themselves the input you type while you are typing it, to squeeze the maximum possible amount of data from your interactions. I don’t know whether ChatGPT is one of those products, but if it is, that behavior might be a side effect of blocking the input pipeline until verification completes. It might be that they want to get every single one of your keystrokes, but only after…

It's still possible to let users already type from the beginning, just delay sending the characters until checks are complete. Hold them in memory until then.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#355

Post by jychang »

tokioyoyo wrote: post #55
jychang wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people are on a CGNAT these days, drowning in captchas is the new normal. You’re at the mercy of one of your neighbors not hosting a botnet from their home computer.

Not even remotely true, I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about. The only time I get captcha'ed is when I sometimes VPN around, or do some custom browser stuff and etc. I'll even say I get captcha'ed less now than maybe 5 years ago.

Just wait until your ISP puts you behind a CGNAT.

Or if you ever need to travel a lot and tether off your phone. Most mobile devices are IPV6 only (via 464XLAT) behind a CGNAT these days.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#356

Post by eloisius »

PunchyHamster wrote: post #256
nikitaga wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scraping static content from a website at near-zero marginal cost to its server, vs scraping an expensive LLM service provided for free, are different things. The former relies on fairly controversial ideas about copyright and fair use to qualify as abuse, whereas the latter is direct financial damage – by your own direct competitors no less. It's fun to poke at a seeming hypocrisy of the big bad, but the similarity…

> Scraping static content from a website at near-zero marginal cost to its server, vs scraping an expensive LLM service provided for free, are different things. I bet people being fucking DDOSed by AI bots disagree Also the fucking ignorance assuming it's "static content" and not something needing code running

Also wild that from the tech bro perspective, the cost of journalism is just how much data transfer costs for the finished article. Authors spend their blood, sweat and tears writing and then OpenAI comes to Hoover it up without a care in the world about license, copyright or what constitutes fair use. But don’t you dare scrape their slop.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#357

Post by miyuru »

davidkunz wrote: post #354
p-e-w wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many cloud products now continuously send themselves the input you type while you are typing it, to squeeze the maximum possible amount of data from your interactions. I don’t know whether ChatGPT is one of those products, but if it is, that behavior might be a side effect of blocking the input pipeline until verification completes. It might be that they want to get every single one of your keystrokes, but only after…

It's still possible to let users already type from the beginning, just delay sending the characters until checks are complete. Hold them in memory until then.

Instagram was uploading the images while the user were adding post details, back in 2012!

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3913919

No one seem to use or care about their own product anymore. Only uses dashboard and metrics, which does not explain the full situation.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#358

Post by catoc »

littlestymaar wrote: post #333
raincole wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite sure even literal thieves would consider thievery a form of abuse.

Yeah, they know it's bad, they just don't think the rules apply to them.

It’s only bad if you’re a closed, for-profit entity

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#359

Post by londons_explore »

huertouisj wrote: post #120
londons_explore wrote: post #12

I just don't understand why bot owners can't just run a complete windows 11 VM running Google Chrome complete with graphics acceleration. You can probably run 50 of those simultaneously if you use memory page deduplication, and with a decent CPU+GPU you ought to be able to render 50 pages a second. That's 1 cent per thousand page loads on AWS. Damn cheap.

there are scraping subreddits. if you browse them you will see that bot writers are very annoyed if they can't scrape a site with a headless browser. you can do what you suggested, but with Linux VMs/containers. windows is too heavy, each VM will cost you 4 GB of RAM

The reason to use windows is that anti bot tech is going to be a lot stricter if Linux is detected...

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#360

Post by catoc »

eru wrote: post #297
PunchyHamster wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Scraping static content from a website at near-zero marginal cost to its server, vs scraping an expensive LLM service provided for free, are different things. I bet people being fucking DDOSed by AI bots disagree Also the fucking ignorance assuming it's "static content" and not something needing code running

> I bet people being fucking DDOSed by AI bots disagree Are you sure it's a DDoS and not just a DoS?

> Are you sure it's a DDoS and not just a DoS?

I think these days it’s ‘DAIS’, as in your site just DAIS - from Distributed/Damned AI Scraping

Post reply on HN