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People inside Microsoft are fighting to drop mandatory Microsoft Account

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Re: People inside Microsoft are fighting to drop mandatory Microsoft Account

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, as long as you signed in once while online. windows caches the creds locally and afaik they do not expire

What happens if you disable the account online, then, or change its password? I haven't worked through this before and I'm curious about it.

password changes or deleting the account will lock out the local credential .

Re: People inside Microsoft are fighting to drop mandatory Microsoft Account

#352
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because nobody would use the same pin for different devices. This is a farcical argument.

Those are some strong words and nothing to back them up. Please, feel free to explain to us in your own words what threat model this device PIN is defending against and how it fails at that.

The argument presented was that a pin is better because it is only for that device. Which is false for 99% or more of users.

Re: People inside Microsoft are fighting to drop mandatory Microsoft Account

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The specs may be comparable, but not the end result : my $2000 Windows 11 laptop is slower and laggier than the Neo.

You must have some broken hardware. My $600 2022 corporate laptop is faster and smoother than a $600 Neo, and that's with the corporate spyware crap installed.

I had a Dell Latitude 7320 from 2022 as a corporate laptop. New it costed well over $2000. It was thermal throttling like crazy and it was even worse when I was on calls. It’s battery wouldn’t last more than an hour and even when you put it to sleep the fan would keep spinning. It would take more than 15 to restart and another 10 for most of the apps to open. It was literally unusable. Meanwhile my M1 MacBook from 2020 is still going strong.

Re: People inside Microsoft are fighting to drop mandatory Microsoft Account

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with how good gaming is on non-windows machines now, there isn't much for a home user to get locked-in with The options for the average user are not linux or windows, but only macOS or Windows. Gaming is abysmal on macOS on any of the current hardware. That said, I agree with you that there's less-and-less gaming lock-in on windows, but that's because the majority of gamers are gaming on iOS and android.

> The options for the average user are not linux or windows, but only macOS or Windows. i dont think this is true. steam surveys also do not agree: linux gamers are about 2x the number of OSX

2% (linux, really 1% steamOS and 1% other linux) and 1% (macOS) makes it sound much less impressive than "2x".

The options for an average user, who does not use steam and is not in the steam hw survey, are just macOS and windows.

The options for a serious gamer who uses steam (a tiny fraction of PC users) is clearly just Windows or SteamOS at this point, or more likely Windows + a steam deck (which is half of the 2% there, SteamOS).

Or just gaming on iOS / android, like most gamers do these days. The steam hw survey isn't really representative of gamers since the vast majority of them game on consoles and phones.

Re: People inside Microsoft are fighting to drop mandatory Microsoft Account

#355
post #68

I’m a Windows fan, and I could see this being a pain for OEMs and installers / IT guys – but I don’t see why people are making a huge deal . Windows quality is a much bigger issue: latency, reliability issues, inconsistencies in the UI, etc. Windows account login provides decent value: Bitlocker recovery, device management, Onedrive sync (even the free version), simpler RDP & remote RPC authentication. You won’t even…

I care about this because I don't want to have to get permission from a third party to log into my local computer. It seems like a fundamental part of owning a computer, to me. It's really that simple. If Microsoft made the default to setup or login to a Microsoft Account but had a pretty easy way to opt-out and make a local account, I don't think anyone would care (well maybe some people would prefer the default to…

It's a fair concern. And I believe you can add local accounts once you init windows with your Microsoft account.

Try to think about it from a vendor perspective. How much more difficult it is to maintain support for local accounts, now that so many activities depend on online support. It's preferrable to have a universal/ online credential you assume to be authenticated, rather than having each app test for identity. This applies to consumer experiences (e.g. cloud storage, AI inferrence), and vendor service (telemetry, crash reporting, etc)

For your main PC, are you really using it anonymously (like you would with TAILS or other secure OS)? In practice most people are immediately logging into email (google), Microsoft, facebook , github etc the moment they set up their PC. So it seems to be overcomplicating things for Microsoft to deny them the credential, when it carries so much more value for both the consumer & the vendor.

Re: People inside Microsoft are fighting to drop mandatory Microsoft Account

#356

Too little, too late. I switched to Linux and I'm never looking back. Good riddance, Microsoft.

The problem with linux is that it is made and maintained by people who love linux. Until product people start getting involved, it's damned to it's eternal ~5% consumer market penetration.

Frankly, I hope Linux keeps the product people out. Product people always turn what they touch to shit. It’s the product people who made Windows the ad ridden mess it is today.

Re: People inside Microsoft are fighting to drop mandatory Microsoft Account

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GPU in the Neo isn't particularly fast...nor is the storage. Neo makes loads of compromises to hit $600 with some of it's features. Even for $400 you can get Windows PCs with TWO whole USB 3.0 ports. $400 quickly hits diminishing returns territory. Like here's a $500 PC: https://www.amazon.com/Aspire-Copilot-WUXGA-Display-Processo... https://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Aspire-14-AI-review-Basic... Twice the storag…

So for $100 less, you get a markedly lower-DPI screen that's 40% dimmer, a slower CPU, hotter running, and a worse chassis. Almost no one's going to be slapping multiple external monitors on either of these. If they did, they might run into the problem where the Acer is often limited to 640x480: https://community.acer.com/en/discussion/733442/have-a-new-a... That is not remotely in the same category as the Neo.

Can we please not have The Verge-tier PC/Mac slap fights on HN. Thanks.

Re: People inside Microsoft are fighting to drop mandatory Microsoft Account

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only tolerable Windows 11 experience is a corporate PC with Active Directory login.

And an IT department vetting updates before they go out.

Was it the 8 to 10 upgrade that MS slipped into Windows Update or a different one? Whichever it was, the IT department where I was at the time had apparently left Windows Update untouched and it wreaked havok.

Re: People inside Microsoft are fighting to drop mandatory Microsoft Account

#359
post #336
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you say that? A lot of shortcuts are shared between windows and linux and fairly consistent across applications. Mac is the one that takes a decided "we're different" approach to shortcuts. I.e., Alt+L for address bar instead of Alt+D, Command swapping with Control, Q instead of W for closing tabs, Command+Control+Q for locking a computer instead of Super+L, etc

Many of those shortcuts already existed in macOS before they were added in Windows. Inversely, a lot of desktop Linux stuff was designed specifically to mimic the Windows behaviour. So, really, it's Microsoft that decided "we're different". Also, as somebody who sort of lives in the terminal, the lack of the Command/Ctrl distinction is one of the things that really bothers me about Windows. In default GUI application…

On the other, as a Windows desktop person I can't live without Home/End/PgUp/Pgdown, and in different combinations with Shift/Control. That's one of reason I can't fully enjoy MacBook, not to mention the incredible fact that it doesn't have a Delete key. No, it's not the same that you can use modifier key with backspace, modifier keys are used for extra functionality, i.e. to delete to begining or end of the word, etc.

Re: People inside Microsoft are fighting to drop mandatory Microsoft Account

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 20 years is way too large a minimum estimate. i disagree. unless intuit is also rewriting quickbooks, dassault systèmes is rewriting solidworks, every bank is rewriting their custom windows-only software, every government branch is rewriting their custom windows-only software, etc. and every company is willing to retrain 95% of their employees on a new operating system, have increased support requirements for a few…

It's an interesting case to me. The company I work for has been shipping systems on windows since the 90's despite pretty consistent requests from customers to ship hardware on Linux. 2 years ago we started creating our own Linux distribution and this year started shipping products on it. We still ship a lot of stuff on Windows 11, but that market share is starting to shift now. 10 years from now I could see us compl…

To me, this is the way linux wins, if it does.

Product teams deciding it's easier to ship on + customers having enough linux familiarity (from their other projects).

And the current crop of Microsoft people on the Windows team don't seem to understand building a platform in the way 90/00s Windows teams did.

It's clear MS moved a lot of their smartest people over to work on Azure products.

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