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The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

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Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#351

Post by vintermann »

supermatt wrote: post #300
weakened_malloc wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True but it's a step removed. The MEPs are directly voted in whilst the EC are not, they're "voted in" on account of "voted in" people assigning them to the EC. I mean nobody argues that the FED governor is voted in, right? In reality a lot of people argue that they're unelected and yet making decisions that affect everyone.

The European Commission represents the interests of the member states, while the European Parliament represent the interests of the citizens. NO LAW CAN PASS without the consent of the citizens directly elected representatives. There is no "pushing through". If you don't like how you are represented at the commission, then blame your government. It is THEIR representative - not yours. Also, don't forget that the comm…

An empty justification, since a state has no interest apart from its citizen's interests.

I hope you agree that elected representation isn't perfect - there is going to be disalignment, ways in which representatives resemble each other more than they resemble their voters.

This disalignment can only get amplified with every layer of indirect election. It never gets better.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#352

Post by outime »

mfru wrote: post #344

The EU is a horribly intransparent and dubiously democratic institution. As a normal citizen you have no real possibility to hold MEPs accountable other then writing an angry E-Mail. In an actually democratic system politicians would be in their position only by mercy of the people and can be voted down from their position anytime if enough people petition for it. (and not just maybe be called back when elections at…

Afraid of what exactly? Someone starting a Change.org petition that gets a few random signatures and is quickly forgotten? Losing a couple of votes? The consequences are almost nonexistent, so there's nothing to be afraid of.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#354

Post by RobertoG »

supermatt wrote: post #300
weakened_malloc wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True but it's a step removed. The MEPs are directly voted in whilst the EC are not, they're "voted in" on account of "voted in" people assigning them to the EC. I mean nobody argues that the FED governor is voted in, right? In reality a lot of people argue that they're unelected and yet making decisions that affect everyone.

The European Commission represents the interests of the member states, while the European Parliament represent the interests of the citizens. NO LAW CAN PASS without the consent of the citizens directly elected representatives. There is no "pushing through". If you don't like how you are represented at the commission, then blame your government. It is THEIR representative - not yours. Also, don't forget that the comm…

No, the European Council is suppose to represent the interest of the member states. The European Commission is suppose to be the executive of the European Union. Translating to the USA system, it would be like saying that the White House is suppose to represent the USA states. No, It's suppose to represent the interest of Europe as an entity.

Any introduction to democracy explains that the power is separated in the executive, the legislative and the judicial.

The European Parliament is suppose to be the legislative body but can't initiate legislation.

The Commission is suppose to be the executive, but, somehow can also initiate legislation and is not elected directly by the citizens. And the council that, I suppose would be the equivalent to a senate, is not directly elected by the citizens.

And we could talk about how all the important decisions are done in the dark, or how, like in this case, when something is not 'correctly' voted, they just keep bringing it back until it pass, or how they have started to 'sanction' people without judicial supervision.

It's time to open the eyes, because this is not going to improve. The EU 'democracy' is a joke.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#355

Post by exceptione »

I am not oblivious to the intent behind this push, but even if you focus solely on the technicalities the idea falls apart. Even with only client-side verification this will be a big privacy intrusion. I see current AI's flag prompts for the most stupid reasons for using words that might possibly occur in non-safe contexts too. The human experience is just too complex for a machine to understand.

To properly assess something, you need to be bodied in reality, being related to the other human in the same human reality. All the datacenters of the world combined will fail the stated objectives, let alone a stupid phone chip. We should not allow computers to take on the role of policing actors in our human reality, because they even can't perform that role faithfully.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#356

Post by bean469 »

cbeach wrote: post #176
latexr wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a EU citizen, it pisses me off that the US is (with others outside the EU) trying this hard to lobby to undermine our democracy and freedom of speech. https://digitalcourage.social/@echo_pbreyer/1162053712243153... And I’d still take this clusterfuck over the alternative current state of the US. At least this situation we can (and have been) striking down, despite all the naysayers on HN. Here’s to hoping we’re ab…

[flagged]

> We Europeans have a pathological habit of blaming Orange Man Bad for all our many problems

Might be a different social circle, but I have not met a single European in my entire life of living in Europe who would blame Donald Trump or the US in general for the problems that we are currently facing. It doesn't take a genius to summarize that trans-continental geopolitics is much more complex than that

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#357

Post by theshackleford »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #268
GCUMstlyHarmls wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? Stopping is a matter of ground swell support contacting representatives and saying "please don't". Enough people do it to enough receptive reps and they'll vote no. Passing new ones that "you like" requires lawyers to write laws, get those laws in front of reps, get them to agree to try and pass it, stake some of their reputation on pushing it, get the ground swell to support it -- which might be difficult whe…

Stopping legislation means organizing a sufficient number of no votes. Passing it means organizing a sufficient number of yes votes. They are the same process and they require exactly the same work. They take place at the exact same moment in time and space, although they are mutually exclusive. You're free to describe things however you want, but your descriptions won't change the underlying reality.

> You're free to describe things however you want, but your descriptions won't change the underlying reality.

You should be delivering this advice to your nearest mirror.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#358

Post by lynx97 »

hermanzegerman wrote: post #303
verisimi wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, if unelected officials is the standard, that's fine then. Move along.

[flagged]

The one who uses foul language and personal attacks is the one who always loose. Even if they don't see it themselves, others do notice.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#359

Post by bean469 »

on_the_train wrote: post #231
afh1 wrote: post #126

Where are all those "as an EU citizen" commenters? You are but a subject of an ultra-national government whose sole objective is ever increased control over your life and euros.

[flagged]

> The EU has always been focused on harming its citizens.

Insanely bonkers take. What sources do you have for this?

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#360

Post by foweltschmerz »

flexagoon wrote: post #218
foweltschmerz wrote: post #39

This is the same EU that blocks and hinders innovation in the name of privacy?

Which law are you talking about? Genuine question, because I know about EU laws that are "in the name of privacy" and about those that (arguably) "hinder innovation", but I don't know which one fits both

At time of writing, I was thinking of GDPR.
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