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Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

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Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#351

Post by gzread »

jojomodding wrote: post #198
SanjayMehta wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They classify Germany and the UK as democracies. That's precious. Germany has sanctioned its own journalists as has the UK. I don't remember the number of ordinary citizens arrested in Germany for social media posts but I know the UK number was 12000 per year. Now let's look at the US: Tucker Carlson is under the gun for allegedly being a Russian or is it Iranian agent. But the US is a democracy. https://www.newsweek…

Do you have a source for the 12k arrested in the UK? I'm asking because all I could find was a list on Twitter that didn't cite any sources itself and also had very implausible numbers (including he 12k/year for the UK). Implausible based on the lived reality of friends of mine living in e.g. the UK or Germany.

And I want to know the social media posts they got arrested for

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#352

Post by gzread »

energy123 wrote: post #100
lnsru wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in Germany. Apparently very democratic place. However nothing happens what people voted for. There is always few groups advertising affordable living in Munich. Never happened. Every year the rent climbs to new never seen high. The system very obviously does not work as advertised. The conspiracist in me however thinks, that the system works as intended.

That's not what you voted for. Homeowners, on the other hand, did vote for it. In most countries they're the majority, and they're better at mobilizing politically. Autocracies are probably less likely to have the same issue because the leaders are petrified of a revolt from the lower classes. In a democracy, the majority (homeowners) will vote away your money.

i.o.w. the system works as intended

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#353

Post by gzread »

modo_mario wrote: post #109
lnsru wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in Germany. Apparently very democratic place. However nothing happens what people voted for. There is always few groups advertising affordable living in Munich. Never happened. Every year the rent climbs to new never seen high. The system very obviously does not work as advertised. The conspiracist in me however thinks, that the system works as intended.

> There is always few groups advertising affordable living in Munich. Never happened. Every year the rent climbs to new never seen high. Well your population grows trough migration, your land does not and your construction doesn't match either in a long term inflationary environment with every incentive pointing in the continuation of that path. See also Canada, Ireland, UK, Netherlands, Australia, etc, etc

Germany is a place of dense housing, so it's about construction more than land

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#355

Post by eru »

triceratops wrote: post #274
eszed wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now define "members". It's both possible and common for an in-group to experience a high degree of trust and care, while those outside that group to... Not. From the point of view of the beneficiaries the social contract is working beautifully! I found Singapore somewhat bracing in how honestly they acknowledge the two tiers (natives + wealthy foreigners vs poor "guest" workers) in their society. The same division fu…

But that's my point. You can define "society" in any way you like to say there's "high social trust". It's a meaningless, hollow boast.

No, it's not. Eg Soviet Russia never had high social trust, no matter how you slice it.

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#356

Post by josephg »

tines wrote: post #325
gmd63 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Access to corruption is never widely understood and accessible to every person, otherwise it would be written into law and stated plainly for everyone to see. Corruption is a form of economic eugenics that breeds fraudsters and cheaters who can buy into the in-group via know-how, money or aesthetics while slowing the growth of a law abiding populace that competes honestly on merit but doesn't fit the unwritten rules…

> Access to corruption is never widely understood and accessible to every person, otherwise it would be written into law and stated plainly for everyone to see. This is an uninformed non-sequitur. In China or Mexico for example, it's well known that to get certain things done you have to bribe local officials. The central government is against corruption by policy, but nevertheless corruption is endemic. It's only "i…

Yes, exactly. I went on holiday to Cairo a few years ago. Small bribes (bashish) is 100% normal there.

My tour guide was this bright 22 year old who dreamed of going to the UK to be an uber driver, so he could make enough money to get married. I told him if he went to the UK, he needed to know to never bribe officials, ever. He made the most adorably confused face - like his brain was blue screening. He had no conception of how a society could function without bribes. “But … how does anything get done?”

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#357

Post by SanjayMehta »

jojomodding wrote: post #198
SanjayMehta wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They classify Germany and the UK as democracies. That's precious. Germany has sanctioned its own journalists as has the UK. I don't remember the number of ordinary citizens arrested in Germany for social media posts but I know the UK number was 12000 per year. Now let's look at the US: Tucker Carlson is under the gun for allegedly being a Russian or is it Iranian agent. But the US is a democracy. https://www.newsweek…

Do you have a source for the 12k arrested in the UK? I'm asking because all I could find was a list on Twitter that didn't cite any sources itself and also had very implausible numbers (including he 12k/year for the UK). Implausible based on the lived reality of friends of mine living in e.g. the UK or Germany.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/steveforbes/2025/09/09/people-a...

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#358

Post by SanjayMehta »

gzread wrote: post #351
jojomodding wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for the 12k arrested in the UK? I'm asking because all I could find was a list on Twitter that didn't cite any sources itself and also had very implausible numbers (including he 12k/year for the UK). Implausible based on the lived reality of friends of mine living in e.g. the UK or Germany.

And I want to know the social media posts they got arrested for

How does it matter?

You can't go around exporting your flavour of free speech at the point of a gun while arresting your own people for yapping on X.

The definition of hypocrisy.

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#359

Post by AngryData »

ecshafer wrote: post #46
tw04 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your response just proves his point. All of that paperwork, all of those contracts- that assumes you can trust the government to fairly enforce the law. In a society where corruption rules, you have no reason to spend time and money on any of that because you know you’re one bribe away from it all being kindling for your next bonfire. So yes, in areas with high corruption they don’t bother. They either just set aside…

Lawyers in the west are a high status career, because we trust the rule of law. In China, its considered a joke career. What is the point of being a lawyer, when relative position, influence and power within the CCP is the lone factor in winning a case? Big companies all end up with shadow positions that are there just to pay money out to CCP honchos and their kids. Board positions and executive positions go to the C…

I certainly do not believe the Rule of Law matters at all in the US, even if we ignore the current administration. US courts have been corrupt for many decades, if not longer, and the only thing that matters to US cops and courts is extorting civilians for money. People with money to spend on lawyers get off easy every time, people without money for lawyers get fucked every time.

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#360

Post by hunterpayne »

jojomodding wrote: post #198
SanjayMehta wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They classify Germany and the UK as democracies. That's precious. Germany has sanctioned its own journalists as has the UK. I don't remember the number of ordinary citizens arrested in Germany for social media posts but I know the UK number was 12000 per year. Now let's look at the US: Tucker Carlson is under the gun for allegedly being a Russian or is it Iranian agent. But the US is a democracy. https://www.newsweek…

Do you have a source for the 12k arrested in the UK? I'm asking because all I could find was a list on Twitter that didn't cite any sources itself and also had very implausible numbers (including he 12k/year for the UK). Implausible based on the lived reality of friends of mine living in e.g. the UK or Germany.

Its an extrapolation based upon UK government arrest figures. It assumes everyone arrested ended up in jail. I have no idea if that is true or not but there are already plenty of documented cases of jail time for social media posts. Hope this helps.

PS 12k a year is more people than Russia jails a year for speech violations.

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