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Bill C-22, the Lawful Access Act: Dangerous backdoor surveillance risks remain

michaelgeist.ca

351–360 of 374 posts

Re: Bill C-22, the Lawful Access Act: Dangerous backdoor surveillance risks remain

#351
post #348
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm somewhat concerned with the level of discourse in these comments; there's frankly a _lot_ of, well, ignorant americans talking about the civics of a country they clearly know nothing about. Would there be any chance of having a short note in the top text to the effect of “please keep in mind when you comment that you're discussing a foreign country that, in spite of the cultural similarity, does not work the same…

> ignorant americans You're crossing into nationalistic flamebait if not an outright slur with that. This is not ok on HN, regardless of nationality, so please don't. Low-quality comments (especially generic tangents) are always a problem in threads on controversial topics. Trying to address that is one of the core moderation tasks on HN, and we're quite dedicated to it. But the question needs to be framed without pu…

I greatly admire your work on hn, but I have to express some skepticism that hn has the background necessary to effectively moderate a contentious discussion about another country's systems.

Specifically, I feel like the cultural similarities has bred a sense of familiarity that leads to unjustified confidence in making and judging claims. My sense is that the US is much more legalistic/formal in its approach to governance, with very few (if prominent) aspects of “binding social contract”. Likewise, the political discourse is different, and the intrusion of “American-style politics” is discussed widely as something that needs to be stamped out.

The current top comment is making a “point” that is predicated on a misunderstanding of how laws are actually applied in Canada; the vast majority of the replies to that comment are discussing the point without any reference to that, with one or two replies down near the bottom trying to educate (below a comment repeating a separatist/right-wing “canada is broken” talking point!).

Again, I'm not claiming that you're not making a good-faith effort to moderate; I'm not questioning your dedication, I just don't think hn is equipped to have nuanced discussions about contentious topics centered on other countries, and the moderation policy should reflect that.

Re: Bill C-22, the Lawful Access Act: Dangerous backdoor surveillance risks remain

#352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'll grant that dozens were imprisoned for protesting on a Tuesday, but do you have a source proving that anybody was imprisoned for protesting on a Wednesday?"

So no?

The government has demonstrated it is perfectly willing to forcibly remove non-violent protesters and unbank anyone protest-adjacent when they don't conveniently go away. Local councillors have orchestrated firing people for voicing their opposition towards the genocide in Gaza [1]. I for one don't understand the goodwill and benefit of doubt a lot of Canadians still seem to exhibit towards the government.

[1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/york-region-paramedic...

Re: Bill C-22, the Lawful Access Act: Dangerous backdoor surveillance risks remain

#353
post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So no?

The government has demonstrated it is perfectly willing to forcibly remove non-violent protesters and unbank anyone protest-adjacent when they don't conveniently go away. Local councillors have orchestrated firing people for voicing their opposition towards the genocide in Gaza [1]. I for one don't understand the goodwill and benefit of doubt a lot of Canadians still seem to exhibit towards the government. [1] https:…

"There's an old saying in Tennessee—I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee—that says, 'Fool me once, shame on...shame on you.' Fool me—you can't get fooled again."

Re: Bill C-22, the Lawful Access Act: Dangerous backdoor surveillance risks remain

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grant you that it is different, but you kind of left totally unaddressed the fact that it is not very powerful at the moment. The US is in far more danger than Canada.

How is it not very powerful? Just because you don't agree with whatever decisions are made doesn't mean that it's not working exactly as designed. The tariffs which are a lynchpin of foreign policy was deemed unconstitutional, which is something you wouldn't expect under a country controlled by the government. The system is working.

I actually agree with you that it is working exactly as designed. It is starting wars, separating families, sending citizens to foreign prisons to be tortured, and establishing concentration camps on American soil. The system is working :-(

Re: Bill C-22, the Lawful Access Act: Dangerous backdoor surveillance risks remain

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad apples… Yeah, it’s what happened. It’s not what has to happen.

> Bad apples… As always, if you are going to use this expression, you should be required to complete it. Remind me: what do bad apples do?

spoils the bunch

Re: Bill C-22, the Lawful Access Act: Dangerous backdoor surveillance risks remain

#356
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not familiar with that conversation, but is the concern that it will be used to raise ticket revenue from victimless crimes without doing much to prevent the other kind?

The concern is losing all your freedom and privacy for no good reason

I don't think any constitution has ever guaranteed a right to privacy in public spaces. I can't imagine how that would ever work even if we were willing to make serious tradeoffs for it.

Re: Bill C-22, the Lawful Access Act: Dangerous backdoor surveillance risks remain

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at what social media considers to be safe countries. You are absolutely bombarded with messaging about how Dubai and Chinese cities are the safest places in the world. I have friends who live in each who consider North America and Europe crime ridden shitholes because theft is possible to get away with. If society believes that crimes is utterly rampant despite it collapsing over the past few decades, there is n…

>If society believes that crimes is utterly rampant despite it collapsing over the past few decades After having to push for a crime to be actually registered and for others to even report small crimes because police has been so useless in Brussels I lost complete faith in this. It also doesn't track with prisons overflowing more and more and damn near half of prisoners not having the nationality. It's safer now! But…

[deleted]

Re: Bill C-22, the Lawful Access Act: Dangerous backdoor surveillance risks remain

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I had this view as well until I realized it’s predicated on living in a high trust society. At some point you reach a critical mass of crime that is so rampant, and the rule of law has so broken down that it’s basically Mad Max out there, and then these idealistic philosophies start to fall apart. I see "High Trust Society" so much as a weird racist dogwhistle, but feel free to disabuse me of that notion. I live in…

Re: High trust society general means people are pointing to some implicit unwritten structures that stop something from happening. Collective notions of shame, actual networks of friends and families that reinforce correct behaviour or issue corrections. Think about simply how credit networks form and function. And why visiting a food truck or medieval travelling doctor for your vial of ointment is different from buy…

It seems to me that society isnt anything but a stick to beat against ones hobby horse. "Society is bad because of the thing that happened to me, save society by changing things my way!!!" etc. Where really if you turn off the tv and go to the shops its fine.

Re: Bill C-22, the Lawful Access Act: Dangerous backdoor surveillance risks remain

#359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been in mainland China for the past year and I wish western politicians would get it through their skulls that most of the ccp model's upsides come from CCTVs in public areas and a police force that prioritizes stopping street crime.

Do they de-prioritize or ignore other crimes that are not visible in the streets? This is an honest question, I want to know if actually focusing only on the streets makes people feel safe even if other types of crimes are rampant. EDIT: I guess I could add examples of what "other crimes" could be. Fraud, corruption, sexual abuse, all victimless crimes, hitmen?

Victimless crimes definitely. For example, street vendors without permits are asked to leave, but not fined. Car accidents are investigated but there seems to be no 'ticket quotas' like in the west, etc.

I don't know much about the other categories you mentioned but I do know that president Xi is associated with a 'tough on corruption' stance that's widely seen as a major positive of his administration.

Re: Bill C-22, the Lawful Access Act: Dangerous backdoor surveillance risks remain

#360
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that's it's sadly a necessity for control of the population when you have other superpowers employing this. If you are Europe, and you have democratic elections, you have an informational power asymmetry towards the states that have mass surveillance and control. You are (as we saw last year with the Romanian election that was swung to 60% in 2 weeks over TikTok) susceptible towards influence of other super…

Regarding banning platforms I’d say just ban the attention driven business model online by forbidding all social media platforms from serving ads entirely.

Ban all third party advertisement. Or taking payment for it at any rate.
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