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Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

agelesslinux.org

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Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#351

Post by tjpnz »

kimixa wrote: post #189
ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications. This is absolutely not true. Here in the UK schools are swarming with ipads and shit like that. They're given to primary school children because they're "more engaging". Children are supposed to practice their reading and even handwriting[1] on ipads. Naturally they're on youtube instead. It's really bad. As far as…

There's no (state) school giving out tablets that aren't pretty much single-use locked down devices. That's the parents. The expectation that "Parenting" is now outsourced to Teachers, to the Government, to anyone else. People seem to expect they just have a kid, and somehow magically they'll grow up to be a perfect person without any work from themselves. So there's over-reach, there's pressure on making "unworkable…

Parents don't have the right tools to minimize harm to their kids online. The parental controls offered by Apple and Google were intentionally designed to be full of holes.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#352

Post by akoboldfrying »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #250
akoboldfrying wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if two people's consciences disagree?

Do it regardless. If you're right other people will realize that. If not, they won't.

How other people respond is largely unrelated to principled notions of justice -- it will mostly depend on what benefits them. Populism, in other words.

I can't see how that could ever go wrong.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#353

Post by EGreg »

nextos wrote: post #14

Something remarkable and unsettling is how the age verification debate has popped up almost simultaneously in the US, UK, and EU. With the same logical fallacies. Pretty telling about how transnational lobbies and their interests work. Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications.

It’s worse than you think. It’s not even coordinated by someone in the background — it’s just the emergent overton window thanks to technology, see:

https://community.qbix.com/t/the-global-war-on-end-to-end-en...

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#354

Post by AnthonyMouse »

SoftTalker wrote: post #260
ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications. This is absolutely not true. Here in the UK schools are swarming with ipads and shit like that. They're given to primary school children because they're "more engaging". Children are supposed to practice their reading and even handwriting[1] on ipads. Naturally they're on youtube instead. It's really bad. As far as…

Exactly. We've completely lost (actually never had it) any social responsibility on the part of the social media/tech companies. Before we had the internet and all these apps and devices, parents looked after what their kids did but could also pretty much rely on other businesses to not do things like sell their kids cigarettes or pornography, let them in to R-rated movies, or expose them to other age-inappropriate s…

> Parents just want to be able to designate a device as belonging to a child---one setting---and have that respected.

The problem here is, what does that actually do?

If you say the device is for kids, can the kids then see content related to firearms? What if the parents are Republicans and don't want that censored for their kids? Also, what does it even mean? Does a YouTube video on firearm safety get blocked because it contains firearms? Should "kids" be able to view sex education content?

If nobody agrees what should be blocked then the reason they don't have a setting is that nobody knows how to implement it.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#355

Post by k33n »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #346
palmotea wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The expectation that "Parenting" is now outsourced to Teachers, to the Government, to anyone else. People seem to expect they just have a kid, and somehow magically they'll grow up to be a perfect person without any work from themselves. So there's over-reach, there's pressure on making "unworkable" soutions, because the people they're trying to force "solving" the problem aren't the people in the best position to…

> Yeah, because the parent's time is now dedicated to their employers. When parenting wasn't outsourced, families typically had a parent at home doing it. This seems to imply that the problem is that we started letting women work, but I suspect the actual problem is back to restrictive zoning again. If you let people actually build housing, and then some people have two incomes, they use the extra money to build a bi…

The left wing constantly says “we started letting women work”. Women have worked for thousands of years. The phenomenon of manipulating women into believing working for a corporation is some kind of “higher calling” is relatively new, and it’s been a disaster for the family unit.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#356

Post by pbackx »

nextos wrote: post #14

Something remarkable and unsettling is how the age verification debate has popped up almost simultaneously in the US, UK, and EU. With the same logical fallacies. Pretty telling about how transnational lobbies and their interests work. Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications.

Personally I do not believe this is a solved problem. Technically maybe, in practice not at all.

It is quite a job juggling the controls of the different companies. Microsoft even has two, one for Xbox one for windows.

And then your child turns 13 and your only option is to take away the devices entirely.

Another thing already discussed is school provided hardware. I know the schools try, but it is usually one person against 300+ students trying to figure out how to game/hack the system. Eg there's no reasonable way where you can expect one person to maintain a YouTube channel whitelist.

I do agree that we might be solving this issue the wrong way, but there is a definitely a problem here.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#357

Post by AnthonyMouse »

k33n wrote: post #355
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah, because the parent's time is now dedicated to their employers. When parenting wasn't outsourced, families typically had a parent at home doing it. This seems to imply that the problem is that we started letting women work, but I suspect the actual problem is back to restrictive zoning again. If you let people actually build housing, and then some people have two incomes, they use the extra money to build a bi…

The left wing constantly says “we started letting women work”. Women have worked for thousands of years. The phenomenon of manipulating women into believing working for a corporation is some kind of “higher calling” is relatively new, and it’s been a disaster for the family unit.

We can distinguish these two things, right?

One is that people tell women it's good to work for a corporation, some of them believe that to be true and choose to do it, the others retain and exercise the option to do something else.

The other is that we set up an artificial scarcity treadmill so that if some families have two incomes, they outbid the ones that don't on life necessities and then women have to take a job at a corporation in order to be able to afford to live indoors even if that's not what they would otherwise choose to do.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#358

Post by microtonal »

nextos wrote: post #14

Something remarkable and unsettling is how the age verification debate has popped up almost simultaneously in the US, UK, and EU. With the same logical fallacies. Pretty telling about how transnational lobbies and their interests work. Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications.

Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications.

Spoken as someone who probably hasn't used iOS/Mac parental controls. It is a hot buggy mess that randomly blocks whitelisted applications as well. We use it, but it is a constant pain. Also a lot of applications only work half, e.g., TV apps blocking off all content rather than only content that is not age-appropriate.

By the way, we were initially firm believers of not using parental controls at all, by limiting time and teaching kids about how to use devices in a healthy way. But a lot of apps (e.g. Roblox, YouTube Shorts) are made to be as addictive as crack, making it very hard for a still not fully developed brain to deal with it.

That said, I absolutely dislike the current lobby for age verification because the goal of Meta et al. seems to be to be to absolve themselves of any responsibility by moving verification to devices and to put up regulatory walls to make it more difficult for potential competitors to enter the market. It is regulatory capture.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#359

Post by thayne »

nextos wrote: post #14

Something remarkable and unsettling is how the age verification debate has popped up almost simultaneously in the US, UK, and EU. With the same logical fallacies. Pretty telling about how transnational lobbies and their interests work. Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications.

To be clear, I don't agree with these laws and think they are very much the wrong way to try to solve the problem.

But it is not a solved problem. From what I've seen parental control software is generally pretty terrible. But this age verification stuff isn't really helpful.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#360

Post by tstrimple »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #250
akoboldfrying wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if two people's consciences disagree?

Do it regardless. If you're right other people will realize that. If not, they won't.

Sounds like you're the type to lead a lynch mob. Do it regardless after all.
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