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New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes

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Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes

#351

Post by mrec »

smallmancontrov wrote: post #331
sodacanner wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really is unfortunate that such a fun piece of punctuation has been effectively gutted. This isn't even really limited to just the em-dash, but I don't know if there's another example of a corporation (or set of them) having such a massive impact on grammar and writing as OpenAI and their ilk have. Entire sentence structures have been effectively blacklisted from use. It's repulsive.

It's not just repulsive — it's the complete destruction of tool through intense overuse! Speaking of overusing something until it becomes cringe, has anyone shown their kids Firefly? Does it still hold up after the Joss Whedon signature bathos (and other tics) became a tentpole of the Marvel Cinematic Universe and created an abundance of cultural antibodies?

I don't have kids myself, but friends have shown Firefly to theirs and I'm happy to report that it still holds up. There's hope for the future yet.

Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes

#352

Post by pvtmert »

marssaxman wrote: post #301
mrandish wrote: post #272

Prior to the rise of LLM-written posts and the natural reaction of hair-trigger suspicion, I used to em and en dash fairly often in posts on HN. No reason really other than being a bit of a typography geek who happens to have always used dashes in casual writing instead of semicolons. So when I was setting up a modifier-key keyboard layer with AHK many years ago I put the em dash on modifier+dash just because I could…

My teenager recently asked me why I write like a chatbot, apparently unaware that some human beings prefer to write in complete sentences with attention to details like spelling, punctuation, grammar, and capitalization, and that LLMs were trained on this sort of writing. This makes me think of the fad where people on youtube will hold a microphone up in frame, because it somehow connotes authenticity. I'm sure some…

I started making deliberate grammar and spelling mistakes in professional context. Not like I have a perfect writing anyway, but at least I could prove that it was self-written, not an auto-generated slop. (Could be self-written slop though :)

This applies not only work-stuff itself also to the job-applications/cv/resume and cover-letters.

Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes

#353

Post by dang »

co_king_6 wrote: post #271
dang wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't ban accounts for criticizing AI (or anything else). We ban them for breaking HN's rules, which you have a long history of creating accounts to do.

Genuine question -- Is it allowed for me to keep creating new accounts? I can leave if you want me to.

That's covered here: "Throwaway accounts are ok for sensitive information, but please don't create accounts routinely. HN is a community—users should have an identity that others can relate to." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

If you want to review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and take the intended spirit of the site to heart, then you're welcome here. But if you don't want to post in the intended spirit, it would be better to leave.

Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes

#354

Post by pluralmonad »

mikenew wrote: post #326

This feels like an existential threat to HN, and to the general concept of anonymous online discourse. Trust in the platform is foundational, and without it the whole thing falls down. Requiring proof of identity is the only solution I can think of, despite how unappealing it is. And even then, you'll still have people handing their account over to an LLM. I really struggle to imagine a way around it. It could be tha…

Removing anonymity is not a solution, just a different problem.

Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes

#355

Post by afro88 »

Honestly, comments are just half the problem. At least half the articles I read from HN are vibe written. And I only spot it after reading a few paragraphs. It's leaving a bad taste, and it's sad because HN was guaranteed to have plenty of things worth reading and it's deteriorating

Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes

#356

Post by smallmancontrov »

mike_hearn wrote: post #338
smallmancontrov wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just repulsive — it's the complete destruction of tool through intense overuse! Speaking of overusing something until it becomes cringe, has anyone shown their kids Firefly? Does it still hold up after the Joss Whedon signature bathos (and other tics) became a tentpole of the Marvel Cinematic Universe and created an abundance of cultural antibodies?

The writing of Firefly was top notch and still holds up great. The MCU tried to imitate the style and mostly failed. But it helped that Firefly was much less overwrought in general.

Glad to hear it, thanks!

Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes

#357

Post by smallmancontrov »

mrec wrote: post #351
smallmancontrov wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just repulsive — it's the complete destruction of tool through intense overuse! Speaking of overusing something until it becomes cringe, has anyone shown their kids Firefly? Does it still hold up after the Joss Whedon signature bathos (and other tics) became a tentpole of the Marvel Cinematic Universe and created an abundance of cultural antibodies?

I don't have kids myself, but friends have shown Firefly to theirs and I'm happy to report that it still holds up. There's hope for the future yet.

Cool, glad to hear it!

Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes

#358

Post by pvtmert »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #340
gkoberger wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do agree... I sometimes use worse grammar (like that ellipses) and leave in typos just so my comments feel more "real" now.

soon were gonna be the ones adding random typos and grammer errors just to blend in. i skip apostrophes and mispell words on purpose already. its strange how fast sloppy writing starts feeling natural (This above line itself was written by AI itself: https://www.kimi.com/share/19c96516-4032-8b73-8000-0000f45eb... ) I don't know if worse grammar could make a difference aside from removing false negatives (ie. nowadays…

Honestly, first paragraph sounds more human and sincere for sure.

Also adding better "context" into the discussion, than the usual claims/punchlines of marketing-speak.

Maybe it's not exactly the grammar itself but also overall structuring of the idea/thought into the process. The regular output sounds much more like marketing-piece or news-coverage than an individual anyway. I think, people wanna discuss things with people, not with a news-editor.

Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes

#359

Post by simonw »

jedberg wrote: post #259
Lerc wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth remembering that you can argue that the use of the word is acceptable now, but can you guarantee that in 30 years time the future world will agree with you to the extent that they let you hold a position of responsibility after using the word 30 years ago. There is precedent here.

I just saw a video on instagram which basically portrayed a rich racist southerner using all the same phrases they used to use for slaves, but for their robot. "We treat this one better because it's a house clanker instead of a field clanker" "If the clanker acts up it knows that it gets stuck in the box" It was meant to be funny but definitely highlighted exactly what you are saying.

Yeah, this is why I don't use the word "clanker" myself. I don't like the culture it winks at.

Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes

#360

Post by zadikian »

mikkupikku wrote: post #279
jmalicki wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it explains any reasonable fraction of this, but github moving from early adopter techies to general population "normies" would be a reason for the shift. I would expect it explains at least some increase in the use of em-dashes.

Do general population normies really use em-dash, or do they just reach for the dash they see clearly printed on their keyboard?

I think they're pressing the default dash (actually a hyphen) twice, and that autocompletes to a single em dash.
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