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Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

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Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#351

Post by thewebguyd »

uncletomscourt wrote: post #89
edot wrote: post #40

Howard Lutnick and his sons are surely happy about this. It’s almost like Howard Lutnick, the Secretary of Commerce , knew this would happen. His sons, at their firm Cantor Fitzgerald, have been offering a tariff refund product wherein they pay companies who are struggling with paying tariffs 20-30% of a potential refund, and if (as they did today) they get struck down, they pocket the 100% refund. https://www.financ…

You think at some point america would get sick of having a billionaire gang of thieves in charge. Trump just gave himself a $10 billion dollar slush fund from taxpayers. Who stopped him? No one. This amount of money will buy you one great den. Noem wants luxury jets from the taxpayer. So. Much. Winning.

We are sick of it, but despite being somewhat of a democracy, we have no real power in this two party, first past the post system when both parties always run establishment candidates, aka, billionaire thieves gang members.

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#352

Post by lordnacho »

tfehring wrote: post #86
edot wrote: post #40

Howard Lutnick and his sons are surely happy about this. It’s almost like Howard Lutnick, the Secretary of Commerce , knew this would happen. His sons, at their firm Cantor Fitzgerald, have been offering a tariff refund product wherein they pay companies who are struggling with paying tariffs 20-30% of a potential refund, and if (as they did today) they get struck down, they pocket the 100% refund. https://www.financ…

I wouldn’t put anything past them, but my impression is that they were just acting as a middleman for this transaction and taking a fee, rather than making a directional bet one way or another. Hedge funds have certainly been buying a lot of tariff claims, giving businesses guaranteed money upfront and betting on this outcome. But for an investment bank like Cantor Fitzgerald that would be atypical.

> they were just acting as a middleman

This is no excuse. If they knew this would be a business, being a broker of such deals would be sure to make them money.

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#353

Post by tracker1 »

arunabha wrote: post #132

The ruling was 6-3 with Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito and Brett Kavanaugh dissenting. Kavanaugh's dissent is particularly peculiar as he wrote 'refunding tariffs already collected could be a “mess” with “significant consequences for the U.S. Treasury.”' So, the justification is that undoing an illegal act is going to be unwieldy for the govt, so presumably, as a corollary, the govt must be allowed to continue doing i…

I think it was more that they felt that the judgement should include instructions to dismiss any remedial action, not that the actions should continue. Without reading the dissent(s), I can't really say...

In the end, the people who bought products that paid more won't get it back... and who will receive the difference is the middle-men who will just pocket the difference profiting from both ends.

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#354

Post by tracker1 »

NickC25 wrote: post #200

Great, no more tariffs...which means that all those corporations who raised prices to compensate, will willingly drop prices back down to normal levels...right? ...Right?

Not likely... most of the inflation pricing increases were just exercises in maximizing profits during emergency circumstances started during COVID and carrying into today. Actually starting in the later 2010's if you look at say fast-food pricing that was dramatically outpacing inflation... like a massive conspiratorial experiment to see how much you could squeeze out of the population in terms of pricing.

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#355

Post by sgerenser »

lordnacho wrote: post #352
tfehring wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t put anything past them, but my impression is that they were just acting as a middleman for this transaction and taking a fee, rather than making a directional bet one way or another. Hedge funds have certainly been buying a lot of tariff claims, giving businesses guaranteed money upfront and betting on this outcome. But for an investment bank like Cantor Fitzgerald that would be atypical.

> they were just acting as a middleman This is no excuse. If they knew this would be a business, being a broker of such deals would be sure to make them money.

It’s not really excusing anything, just pointing out that Cantor Fitzgerald would be making money whether this Supreme Court ruling went for or against the Trump tariffs. So it’s not like they had to have any inside knowledge to be making money.

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#356

Post by tracker1 »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #314
cjbenedikt wrote: post #38

Now let's see what will happen.After all J.D.Vance (US VP)famously said:" The judiciary has decided. Now let them enforce it".

Ahem. The line is widely attributed to President Andrew Jackson, usually quoted as: “John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it.” He probably didn't say it either, its first appearance is in an 1860s book by Horace Greeley.

From the guy that invaded Florida... I wouldn't be surprised if it was Andrew Jackson though.

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#357

Post by NalNezumi »

I wonder how this will be interpreted outside US? realistically there's no way countries affected will get any "sorry" out of this, legally or from the administration.

By the neo-royalist [1]interpretation of the current administrations policies, many countries have either decided to pay for the royalty fee to get tariff exemption in a way aristocats in pre-Westphalian Europe dealed with each other. While other stuck with the idea that it's stil the country you do deal with, not royals/aristocats.

All those countries (like the Swiss giving Trump golden rolexes for appeasement) that bent their knee: are they now gonna roll it back or are they thinking that the US system is so compromised, current administration will just find another way to play the neo-royalist game, creating new policies similar to the tariff so that each side lose, and then carve out an exemption for "the buddies" of the administration (and if you don't pay the tithe, you shall lose)

[1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-organi...

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#358

Post by 15155 »

idontwantthis wrote: post #246
ceejayoz wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be interesting if Biden had taken the new doctrine of presidential immunity to heart in the last few months of his term.

A true hero would have done whatever it took to pack the SC and then resigned.

How would those confirmations have worked exactly?

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#359

Post by mikkupikku »

jghn wrote: post #287
coldpie wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If whoever runs in 2028 does not have a concrete plan for investigating & prosecuting every single person who worked under this admin from top to bottom, they are wasting everyone's time. We need to see hundreds of life-in-prison sentences by the end of 2029.

I can tell you what will happen instead. If a dem wins in 2028, the big push will be one of reconciliation and acceptance. Let bygones be bygones. And it'll happen. And then for the next 4 years conservative media will absolutely pound that person's backside over made up and/or exaggerated corruption claims. Then in 2032 the GOP candidate will claim they're going to look into these claims.

Yep. Remember when people were expecting Obama to prosecute Bush for war crimes? He should have, but chickened out and decided he would instead carry on Bush's transgressions as the new status quo.

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#360

Post by fblp »

sgerenser wrote: post #355
lordnacho wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they were just acting as a middleman This is no excuse. If they knew this would be a business, being a broker of such deals would be sure to make them money.

It’s not really excusing anything, just pointing out that Cantor Fitzgerald would be making money whether this Supreme Court ruling went for or against the Trump tariffs. So it’s not like they had to have any inside knowledge to be making money.

They do make more money the more pervasive tariffs are though as more people would buy tariff related financial products.
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