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America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

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Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#351

Post by jen20 »

mikestorrent wrote: post #281
Grimburger wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is being entirely disingenuous and is completely different to what goes on in Dubai. I have lived there and can rattle off plenty of criticisms about the country but complaining about migrant workers who clamour to work in SG is not one of them. The vast majority of Singapore migrant workforce are Malaysian citizens who live over the border in JB, you can rent a 2 bed apartment there for $300 a month and eat out…

> while commuting each day to a developed country Must be a fully automated border or something? That kind of commute would be unthinkable between e.g. Canada and the USA for most folks

Plenty of people commute from Windsor (Ontario) to the Detroit Metro Area daily.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#352

Post by nitaigao »

ggm wrote: post #266
Grimburger wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is being entirely disingenuous and is completely different to what goes on in Dubai. I have lived there and can rattle off plenty of criticisms about the country but complaining about migrant workers who clamour to work in SG is not one of them. The vast majority of Singapore migrant workforce are Malaysian citizens who live over the border in JB, you can rent a 2 bed apartment there for $300 a month and eat out…

I said nothing of the kind you imply. I know skilled workers who were based in Dubai but who expected to leave immediately their work (court transcription) ended and the same with expat Australians and Britons working in Singapore. The point is not if they get a rough deal or not compared to their home income. The point is that the welfare state costs on the tax base won't be spent to their material benefit, so they…

Dubai has a 90 day visa grace period for job loss. Plenty of foreign labour self sponsor their own visas and there is the golden visa and retirement visa for people aging out.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#353

Post by exidy »

eru wrote: post #296
InkCanon wrote: post #12

Singapore's economic policies are complicated and often misdirecting. I'll break down the misconceptions. The primary purpose of CPF is not a pension scheme. It is structured as a massive forced bond purchase scheme by citizens. Financially what happens is the 37% of citizen income buys a long term bond (till retirement age, on average decades) at rock bottom interest rates (it's pegged to the overnight rate or a min…

> The main goal of the government is to maximize the absolute number of people working. Why? What? You know, they have to win elections? They recently tightened migrant worker visas quite a lot.

The non-resident population of Singapore (which is a reasonable proxy for migrant worker population) is at the highest it's ever been, as is the total population.[0][1]

[0] https://www.singstat.gov.sg/publications/reference/singapore...

[1] https://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-workforce-numbers

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#354

Post by danny_codes »

arolihas wrote: post #98
danny_codes wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet that GINI keeps rising and cost of living outpaces inflation over the past 40 years in housing, healthcare, and education. If you are bottom quintile, maybe bottom 2, you are poorer now than 40 years ago on average. Recent policy changes seek to drop the third quintile as well. America is designed for rich people

The bottom quintile gets everything handed to them and it's still not enough. We all live at the mercy of them and their dysfunction.

How are you at the mercy of a group with no money or power? Genuinely curious how you logic-ed your way into this tenuous and seemingly ludicrous position

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#356

Post by exidy »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #237
mark_l_watson wrote: post #21

I had the privilege of getting a working gig in Singapore for a small AI startup: such a well run country! There is a sense of community for helping by employing people who need jobs, the police were friendly and I felt very safe there (I like to take long walks either early in the morning or late at night and I felt very secure.) Amazing what the people and government have achieved since the end of WW2. 100% respect…

I worked with a guy from sg. He gave me tips for when I went to visit. He hooked me up with a family member that showed me the backend a bit. The country effectively runs on a slave class. You must drive a new vehicle under 5 years old, and the license just to buy a car was $90,000 or so. This means an entire class of people that will be taking the bus to do your laundry and clean your house for the rest of their liv…

> The country effectively runs on a slave class.

I really wish people would not throw this word around so casually, it is disrespectful to the many millions of people over the course of human history (and today!) who were forced under threat of violence or death to labour without remuneration.

Of course Singapore's migrant worker system is open to criticism, but every single one of those workers can resign tomorrow and get a free plane ticket home, and the same applies to domestic helpers as well.

Migrant workers work in Singapore because it's their most rational economic choice. They pay no income tax, room and board is provided and the wages are sufficient to house, feed and educate their family back home, almost certainly to a better standard than would otherwise be possible had they remained in their home country.

tl;dr migrant workers have agency!

The comment about cars is unintentionally hilarious. “A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars. It's where the rich use public transportation.” and the public transportation in Singapore is very good indeed.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#357

Post by eru »

exidy wrote: post #356
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked with a guy from sg. He gave me tips for when I went to visit. He hooked me up with a family member that showed me the backend a bit. The country effectively runs on a slave class. You must drive a new vehicle under 5 years old, and the license just to buy a car was $90,000 or so. This means an entire class of people that will be taking the bus to do your laundry and clean your house for the rest of their liv…

> The country effectively runs on a slave class. I really wish people would not throw this word around so casually, it is disrespectful to the many millions of people over the course of human history (and today!) who were forced under threat of violence or death to labour without remuneration. Of course Singapore's migrant worker system is open to criticism, but every single one of those workers can resign tomorrow a…

The argument against allowing migrant workers seems to boil down mostly to 'out of sight, out of mind'. Or in more sophisticated terms: The Copenhagen Interpretation of Ethics.

See https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/QXpxioWSQcNuNnNTy/...

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#358

Post by TurdF3rguson »

staringforward wrote: post #350
eru wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slave class? What? > You must drive a new vehicle under 5 years old, [..] No? And no one is forced to drive anything. I don't own a car.

> no one is forced to drive anything. I don't own a car. Cut him some slack, it is hard for an American to imagine anybody living without a car.

In NYC it's hard to imagine owning a car. Everywhere else it's hard to imagine not owning one.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#359

Post by cm2012 »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #200
paulddraper wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the qualifier. And heart surgery is ~$60k. [1] That's [1] https://cost.sidecarhealth.com/ts/heart-bypass-surgery-cost-...

I have never in my 30 year career paid more than $10K a year for health care across 10 jobs and that’s including working at Amazon with their shitty benefit package

In my 15 year career, I have never paid less than $10k per year for just me and my wife for health insurance. And I basically try to pick the most sensible and affordable option, not luxury plans.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#360

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

mathgladiator wrote: post #339
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So exactly how do you “take care” of your insurance if the ACA goes kaput? “Thoughts and Prayers” until you are 65?

I pay cash for everything right now since ACA plans are terrible... BUT, I am also one of those nut jobs that only eats meat and it is amazing. But, most people can't even begin to imagine giving up carbs as they are junkies.

Are you willing to bet that nothing catastrophic will happen to your health before you are 65?
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