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Slop Terrifies Me

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Re: Slop Terrifies Me

#351

Post by xg15 »

djoldman wrote: post #108

Now that generative AI products are becoming more widely used, it's a little depressing how folks don't seem to view the world with a broad historical context. The "AI effect" on the world has many similarities to previous events and in many ways changes very little about how the world works. > I'm terrified of the good enough to ship—and I'm terrified of nobody else caring. For almost every product/service ever offe…

> In fact, lots of capitalistic activity is basically a search for the cheapest and fastest way to accomplish a minimum set of requirements.

Yes. Which means the overall quality of things is dropping. Its nothing new or AI-specific indeed, but that doesn't make it a good thing.

Re: Slop Terrifies Me

#352

Post by fragmede »

direwolf20 wrote: post #326
fragmede wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you oversimplify things, you lose the point. I moved houses. I took all of my stuff from my old house, moved it into a new house. Later, I moved all of that stuff back out of that house when I moved out of that one. Was moving my stuff into that house pointless, then? I could have just skipped a step and put it all in storage and then just not had any furniture for the entire time and saved money. In fact, if you…

nobody needs those holes dug and filled

in your version, sure. But it really would be nice to have that bridge get built anyway.

Re: Slop Terrifies Me

#353

Post by glitchc »

coldtea wrote: post #119
glitchc wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Versus what exactly? Communism? Where the rich got richer faster and people got fucked faster?

They taught you the only two altenatives are 1917 style communism or 2026 style capitalism? Talk about a crap educational system.

Proven outcomes in the real world matter, not hypotheticals in a textbook. Can you provide clear examples of successful communist nations where you would be willing to live and raise children, or is this just pseudo-intellectualism?

Re: Slop Terrifies Me

#354

Post by godelski »

dijksterhuis wrote: post #204
djoldman wrote: post #108

Now that generative AI products are becoming more widely used, it's a little depressing how folks don't seem to view the world with a broad historical context. The "AI effect" on the world has many similarities to previous events and in many ways changes very little about how the world works. > I'm terrified of the good enough to ship—and I'm terrified of nobody else caring. For almost every product/service ever offe…

> Most users just absolutely do not know about, care about, or worry about security, privacy, maintainability, robustness, or a host of other things. nitpick: most users don’t care about these things until something goes significantly wrong and it impacts them , e.g. a massive data breach or persistent global downtime. then they get angry. very angry. just because people don’t care about it now doesn’t mean they won’…

This is essentially the literacy component of a Lennon market (which the parent essentially described). Where the consumer can't differentiate a lemon from a peach, only a tad more abstract. The customer has an implicit assumption that it's all equivalent so it gets removed from the decision process.

Which that's probably why we're in a lemon economy. To figure out the answers to these things is incredibly time consuming, even if one does have expertise in a specific domain. Fatigue leads to the same result, oversimplification of assumptions

Re: Slop Terrifies Me

#355

Post by kjkjadksj »

drzaiusx11 wrote: post #315
kjkjadksj wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of offshoring to ai isn’t zero. Chatgpt and such are businesses. They charge subscriptions. In fact whatever cost you’d pay offshoring to india is probably where chatgpt is hoping to price its subscriptions eventually. Anything less is just leaving money on the table for chatgpt.

I agree it's greater than zero, however, like a good drug dealer you get the first few hits for free (or at cost in the most charitable interpretation of current subscriptions.) I get the feeling that we're not even close to paying for the _actual_ costs of our frontier GenAI models at current usage levels, with or without subscriptions in the picture. AFAICT we're all using a highly subsidized product, made possible…

The thing with data center build out is it isn’t just lighting money on fire. You are building out infrastructure that you can then lease out to other users who no longer have to pay to build out their own infrastructure since yours exists and is for lease.

Re: Slop Terrifies Me

#356

Post by int_19h »

ozmodiar wrote: post #115
baxtr wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely recommend to watch this video with Reinhold Niebuhr. Sure some things deteriorate, but many things improve. Talking about a net decline (or net gain) is very difficult. Every age has its own set of problems that need to be solved. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93EJJVAinRc

Part of it is also that when we look back we think of people's suffering as sacrifices that needed to be made. Now that it's us being sacrificed it really shifts a lot of people's perspective. I think we need a better solution than letting a bunch of people get fucked so that some other set of people in the right place can have shinier toys in the future. Society needs to handle these transitions better, especially a…

FWIW I'm fine with the "sacrifices need to be made" angle in general provided that this sacrifice is fairly spread among the populace.

The problem is that you can randomly end up in a group of people destined to be fucked, and there's no compensation.

Re: Slop Terrifies Me

#357

Post by int_19h »

coldtea wrote: post #172
pixl97 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is all very easy to control. First is you get a particular group of people to work for you. You tell them they are better than all the other poor people out there, that is get them to be nationalistic/racist, etc. You also give them a little bit more than the abjectly poor so they have something they fear to lose. You also let them know if they upset the situation they are in retribution will be swift and br…

So easy to control that most rich people throughout history were murdered by their guards and close helper circle.

The vast majority of rich people don't get murdered.

Those that do, yes, usually get murdered by those in position to do that (i.e. those that have physical access to them). That's neither interesting nor relevant though.

Re: Slop Terrifies Me

#358

Post by int_19h »

thesz wrote: post #340
danaris wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the singularity is happening [Citation needed] No LLM is yet being used effectively to improve LLM output in exponential ways. Personally, I'm skeptical that such a thing is possible. LLMs aren't AGI, and aren't a path to AGI. The Singularity is the Rapture for techbros.

You are right about "LLM improving themselves" is impossible. In fact, LLM make themselves worse, it is called knowledge collapse [1]. [1] https://arxiv.org/abs/2404.03502

That paper again.

LLMs have been trained on synthetic outputs for quite a while since then and they do get better.

Turns out there's more to it than that.

Re: Slop Terrifies Me

#359

Post by int_19h »

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #64
Der_Einzige wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the rapid acceleration of progress and conclude this way, well, de nile ain't just a river in egypt. Also yes LLMs are indeed AGI: https://www.noemamag.com/artificial-general-intelligence-is-... This was Peter Norvig's take. AGI is a low bar because most humans are really stupid.

If you think AGI is at hand why are you trying to sway a bunch of internet randos who don’t get it? :) Use those god-like powers to make the life you want while it’s still under the radar.

AGI is not a "godlike power" under this definition.

Re: Slop Terrifies Me

#360

Post by int_19h »

Recurecur wrote: post #347
Recurecur wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, LLMs provide one piece of AGI. The only intelligence I’ve directly experienced is my own. I don’t consciously plan what I’m saying (or writing right now). Instead, a subconscious process assembles the words to support my stream of consciousness. I think that LLMs are very similar, if not identical. Stream of thought is accomplishing something superficially similar to consciousness, but without the abil…

So, I was downvoted twice, yet neither of you doubtless brilliant individuals bothered to refute my points. I’ll emphasize my main point further, LLMs have no ability to innovate much beyond the vast data they’ve scraped. They’re almost entirely derivative. They are a definite improvement over traditional search engines though!

Your points seem to boil down to "it hasn't happened yet, so it will never happen".

There really isn't much to engage with.

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