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Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

yle.fi

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Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#351

Post by rudhdb773b »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #82
pfdietz wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But think of the children" has always been the go-to excuse for tossing freedom out the window.

While I agree with this, I also find that the "but think of the children" ironic retort also usually ignores the very real problems that technology can cause children (and society at large). In this issue in particular, if banning social media for children makes it less likely for adults to use it, I see it as pretty much a win-win.

Would you also want the government to ban junk food and recreational drugs? What about unprotected premarital sex?

I'd much rather live in a society with personal freedoms than a "healthier" one with government mandates on personal behavior.

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#352

Post by GOD_Over_Djinn »

peyton wrote: post #284
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But they're so few. Given how many subreddits there, I have to ask if you have statistics to back up this claim. My intuition is that people have problems with a bunch of popular subreddits, but the vast majority of subreddits are just fine. I have no statistics to back up this intuition. Do you?

There’s a whole vibrant industry of people you can pay to market whatever you want on Reddit. They can’t all be competing for the same few popular subreddits. They must be differentiated by targeting niche subreddits.

[flagged]

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#353

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

peyton wrote: post #284
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But they're so few. Given how many subreddits there, I have to ask if you have statistics to back up this claim. My intuition is that people have problems with a bunch of popular subreddits, but the vast majority of subreddits are just fine. I have no statistics to back up this intuition. Do you?

There’s a whole vibrant industry of people you can pay to market whatever you want on Reddit. They can’t all be competing for the same few popular subreddits. They must be differentiated by targeting niche subreddits.

There's about 138,000 active subreddits. I don't believe that this industry is targetting even a majority of them.

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#354

Post by rudhdb773b »

Noaidi wrote: post #63
pfdietz wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But think of the children" has always been the go-to excuse for tossing freedom out the window.

So in this case, do we just stop thinking about the children in totality?

In the context of government legislation on personal behavior, yes.

Parents should be the ones setting up rules for their children.

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#355

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

GOD_Over_Djinn wrote: post #352
peyton wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a whole vibrant industry of people you can pay to market whatever you want on Reddit. They can’t all be competing for the same few popular subreddits. They must be differentiated by targeting niche subreddits.

[flagged]

Tell me more ... what's so naive?

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#356

Post by cmurf »

andix wrote: post #98

Modern social media is nothing like social media in early days (myspace, early Facebook and even early Instagram). Back then it was a platform to communicate with friends, and maybe even find new friends to meet up with. Today social media is more like a drug, to keep the user engaged and to push content to them. The content must either be addictive/engaging or paid advertisements. Quality of the content doesn't matt…

The medical and financial predators targeting elderly makes me wonder how to constrain it. The law doesn’t really help, short of having a court determine there’s some level of incapacity.

In theory the law doesn’t require victim cooperation. In practice, I’ve found local prosecutors won’t touch a case with an uncooperative victim. And most victims don’t cooperate whether out of humiliation or rejection pf the very idea they can be scammed. Because to them all scams are obvious, and only morons are scammed. They consistently lack imagination for the sophistication and manipulation component of scams, thinking it’s all about obviousness.

I’m sure it’s not only a case of “save the children”. Saving grandma’s retirement accounts is also important. The internet is a cesspool.

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#357

Post by pests »

gman83 wrote: post #137
andix wrote: post #98

Modern social media is nothing like social media in early days (myspace, early Facebook and even early Instagram). Back then it was a platform to communicate with friends, and maybe even find new friends to meet up with. Today social media is more like a drug, to keep the user engaged and to push content to them. The content must either be addictive/engaging or paid advertisements. Quality of the content doesn't matt…

I wouldn't be surprised if Meta turned WhatsApp into a TikTok clone just to get around the restrictions. They know that banning WhatsApp for teenagers in Europe is almost impossible. I look at my kids, all their sports clubs and other extracurricular activities are organized through WhatsApp. I already had to block Youtube on their devices. I was alright with them watching a couple of long-form youtube videos every d…

You're in luck! They recently rolled out updated parental controls letting you block it.

https://blog.youtube/news-and-events/updates-youtube-supervi...

"YouTube has introduced enhanced parental controls allowing parents to manage or block YouTube Shorts for teen accounts. Parents can set daily time limits for Shorts ranging from zero to two hours, configure custom bedtimes, and set "take a break" reminders" (AI summary)

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#358

Post by LoganDark »

andix wrote: post #98

Modern social media is nothing like social media in early days (myspace, early Facebook and even early Instagram). Back then it was a platform to communicate with friends, and maybe even find new friends to meet up with. Today social media is more like a drug, to keep the user engaged and to push content to them. The content must either be addictive/engaging or paid advertisements. Quality of the content doesn't matt…

> Back then it was a platform to communicate with friends, and maybe even find new friends to meet up with.

Those still exist... and this ban will probably outlaw them for the people who need it the most.

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#359

Post by bityard »

whyenot wrote: post #160
cheeseface wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree on how the platform’s have changed. However, I don’t think Reddit is an exception. Popular is often filled with content that is driven by the feelings of fear and hate. Not something I’d like to continually expose kids or teens to.

What I find particularly bad about Reddit is the platform is specifically designed to amplify group think and silence competing opinions. All it takes is five more downvotes than upvotes and a comment will lose visibility. It can turn subreddits into little bubbles where like-minded people upvote each other and almost never have to see dissenting opinions. That may not be a big deal on a gardening subreddit, but it c…

It depends on lot on the sub and how their moderators police the community, but yeah, I've seen lots of that.

I've been aggressively downvoted before for pointing out facts that people don't want to be true. (And these were not even political discussions!) I don't even bother with putting my opinions online at any rate, both because they don't actually matter to anyone but me, and because I don't get any joy out of defending them against internet randos.

Edit: It depends on the size of the sub as well. I'm a member of a few subs that I can stand because the moderators are good at moderating, and there are enough regular users coming through to counter a small number of very active cranks.

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#360

Post by yallpendantools »

heavyset_go wrote: post #344
collingreen wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which part is "keep the town square terrible"?

The part where social media goes completely unchanged except for banning some kids from communicating with their friends

Which just begs the question, how much can you really change social media? How much are you really in control of your feed? This is where the "pubic square" analogy breaks down. Besides, there are a lot of communication mediums/messaging apps that are not social media.

Even back in the early 2010s I've been trying to consume social media mindfully. I made sure to follow pages with meaningful content (e.g., The Dalai Lama, The Long Now Foundation, Aeon Magazine, tech-related pages, SpaceX, Elon Musk, indie creators). I don't just add or follow blindly.

Back then I could justify why my selection was "good" but even then, they were drowned out by the tedium of vacations, new restaurants, felt-cute-might-delete-later selfies. Slop/engagement bait is quicker to produce than meaningful thought-provoking content.

I am also pretty sure Facebook's negative signals (unfollow, don't show me this type of content) did not work back then, at least not deterministically. If something I did not like had enough traction, it will still pop up in my feed.

And of course, goes without saying that a lot of my choices aged like milk. Elon Musk turned out to be, well, Elon Musk. Some of the tech pages started shilling out crypto (and nowadays doubtless AI). The indie creators either stopped posting or fell out of favor with the algorithm which meant exodus from the platform. All that goes on top of my pre-existing grievances against my feed recommendations.

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