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Tesla is committing automotive suicide

electrek.co

351–360 of 458 posts

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#351
post #174

BYD is slapping the EV industry around like a gorilla, Tesla simply cannot compete in any meaningful way. Waymo has achieved profit per unit and people are happy to see driver-less taxis in their city and pay for the service. Tesla also cannot justify valuations based on automotive sales/subscriptions alone - they were always going to have to pivot. They're in a tight spot and they need to do something drastic.

Tesla can compete with BYD all right. They have a better brand, they are still a status symbol. They could totally build the best cars if they wanted to. But competing with BYD would mean becoming "just a car company". And that's what Tesla can't do. Too many promises have been made, the stock's been pumped too high, and there is no way a just-a-car company can justify that market cap. Their only way is to go for the…

Most of the moonshot bet relate to AI becoming good so the self driving and robots work. It's not impossible although who knows when exactly, or if the Musk companies will get ahead of the competition.

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#352
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus people who buy cars are eating all the depreciation. I’ll glad buy your 2024 Corolla in 2032.

Are you sure about that? The sustainable operation of modern cars is in doubt, from very specialized parts and fully integrated modules, to critical software that will not be updated, to dealer keying required for most every substitute part, the era of anyone being able to run cars for 200,000 miles long after the warranty is over will soon be in the history books.

I haven't seen any evidence that the "reliable" car brands are trying to change that dynamic moving forward. I think we are seeing a change in consumer behavior that leads to increased demand for new cars, but that is not connected to the reliability of the platform of the long term maintenance requirements.

If electric cars are actually simpler like all of these experts keep telling us, then in the next 3-5 years, we'll know which models are living up to expectations and which ones are not aging as gracefully.

The other thing to consider is the "old" batteries. If I can buy a used Nissan Leaf and harvest the batteries for a home-storage project after the frame kicks the can due to rust or some other problem, then I'm essentially able to keep those batteries as a form of equity on the vehicle. We also will see new companies popping up to address these home-battery conversion projects with plug and play harnesses to drop in your car batteries after the vehicle is no longer worthy of use on the road.

Sure, batteries will also continue to come down in price across the board, so that calculation also needs to be considered, but we're in this interesting middle zone where a lot of used EV value is being left on the table because the business market hasn't quite kept up with the demand for the next step in the lifecycle of modern EVs.

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, I have a 2023 Corolla. The dealer didn't like it when I said "LE" stands for "Low End" as a joke (it means Limited Edition). The technology for such a low end car is impressive. In addition to adaptive cruise control and lane keeping, the display shows the speed limit not by consulting a map but by reading the signs as you drive down the street. They call it RSA, Road Sign Assist. It also uses the camera and…

2022 Corolla owner here. Mine is UK spec with “Design” trim, which is middle of the range in terms of luxuries. I love mine. It’s got enough technology without it being annoying and has everything I want. The adaptive cruise is a killer feature. Best car I’ve ever owned.

As the unofficial corporate tag line quips: 'Toyota: for when your favorite appliance color is beige'

But in all seriousness, I'll give props to Honda, Toyota, and Mazda for amazing engineering cultures. In the sense of being extremely good at optimizing trade-offs.

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#354
post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like many (many) things, it is all about the implementation - not all lane keeping assist thinks it knows better than the driver.

The problem is knowing which lane keeping assist systems are good and which are not. Every dealer just treats it as a 'checkbox' item and implementations vary by model and year. Had a Kia loaner a few years back that to my surprise tried to actively kill me by repeatedly steering into oncoming traffic on a provincial road. I really prefer steering myself to last-second correcting a temperamental computer.

> The problem is knowing which lane keeping assist systems are good and which are not. Every dealer just treats it as a 'checkbox' item and implementations vary by model and year.

Yep, I agree.

I used to travel to my parent's home 300km away once a month, and changing from a 2010 no-assist car to a Tesla Model 3 with AP (not FSD) back in 2019 was a game changer. I used to drive there on a Friday evening after work, and I basically collapsed into bed when I got there. With AP I was still tired of course, but also still functioning and way more alert. In my experience Tesla's AP UX is very good: chime when engaging, chime when disengaging, you don't need to look at the screen to know the state you're in, and if you touch controls it lets you know (via chime) and deactivates.

One of the most horrible UXes for me has been on a new Hyundai i10 with the basic lane assist (and I know it's very similar on a new VW Golf that my cousin is leasing):

- there's no chimes, you're forced to look at the screen at the center of the dashboard

- said display is 100x400 (or sth similar) 16-color pixel screen in the center of the dashboard

- out of said display, you need to look in the very corner for an icon of 10x10 pixels that can be yellow, green or white (which under low backlight/high contrast conditions can be tough to decipher)

- lane-keep is on by default at every car start, and tends to butt in on twisty roads (very common where I live), so half-way through a turn you'll feel the steering wheel literally lose force-feedback, while you're still applying force, and swearing ensues

- someone thought that constantly reminding people of the speed limits was a good idea, so the car will scream incessantly at you for being 50.1 over 50

- but will happily let you change lanes and re-engage auto-steer automatically (you need to manually enable this) while doing 120km/h on the highway without any hint that it's re-engaging automatically

- the speed warning is yet another setting that you can turn off at runtime, but you can't persist properly

- auto-steer, after is manually engaged, will stay happily engaged even after you leave they highway and are at very low speeds, and will try to correct you when doing roundabouts

I think the Tesla UX is way better there, and I think regulatory bodies should start preventing things like the i10 assist to be sold to customers, because they're actively dangerous. I've literally had minor heart attacks due to the lane-keep butting in on twisty roads - I thought the front tires were slipping for some reason.

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#355
post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like many (many) things, it is all about the implementation - not all lane keeping assist thinks it knows better than the driver.

The problem is knowing which lane keeping assist systems are good and which are not. Every dealer just treats it as a 'checkbox' item and implementations vary by model and year. Had a Kia loaner a few years back that to my surprise tried to actively kill me by repeatedly steering into oncoming traffic on a provincial road. I really prefer steering myself to last-second correcting a temperamental computer.

There's no way in hell I'd buy a car nowadays without at least a weekend rental.

There's too many random dumb features. (Hyundai/Kia's coffee break notification?)

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#356
post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the various reports of federal technical supervision instances that attest Teslas have the highest failure rates: Germany: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tuev-report-2026-tesla-mo... Denmark: https://fdm.dk/nyheder/nyt-om-trafik-og-biler/tesla-skandale... Ireland: https://www.rsa.ie/road-safety/statistics/nct-statistics-and... At some point you have to acknowledge the data as facts.

I kind of don't really care, as long as I get good service if my car is affected. I'm not defending them here. The next few years will tell if it was a bad buy or not. So far I'm really happy with it. My point was there's a huge anti-Tesla bias entirely as a reaction to Elon Musk. It's emotional, not rational. It's not objective criticism of Tesla. Sure, there are some awful moves he's made, vision only, FSD claims,…

And now the US has its own car manufacturer literally started by a Nazi. If you dislike Nazis, is that rational or emotional?

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#357

Bipedal robots are dumb. A robot that can only walk around my house is still useless. A robot that can wheel or track or even park in front of my dryer and fold laundry would be incredible. Yet every demo is Robot Jumps And Dances, not Robot Does Something Useful. My theory is that bipedal motion is the "easy" problem, and fine motor control is the hard problem. That makes me bearish on Optimus: A car with questionab…

Here's a figure robot unloading the dishwasher https://x.com/chatgpt21/status/2016210798884815156

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#358
post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of don't really care, as long as I get good service if my car is affected. I'm not defending them here. The next few years will tell if it was a bad buy or not. So far I'm really happy with it. My point was there's a huge anti-Tesla bias entirely as a reaction to Elon Musk. It's emotional, not rational. It's not objective criticism of Tesla. Sure, there are some awful moves he's made, vision only, FSD claims,…

And now the US has its own car manufacturer literally started by a Nazi. If you dislike Nazis, is that rational or emotional?

I actually don't really care if he's a nice person or not, just like I don't care who the CEO of other car makers are. But for the record I think it's pretty silly to call him a Nazi.

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#359
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: I like my Tesla, and I find the AI assistant diverting and useful. I have very little doubt the functionality of the limited on-board voice assistant will be merged into Grok (it's literally on the coming features). Whether you like this or not, who cares? The pace of improvement in Tesla software compared to any other manufacturer is astonishing, and astonishingly good. I have no love for the CEO, but…

Diverting?

In Italian divertente is entertaining. Parent probably speaks a Romance language and got hit by a "false friend".

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#360
post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the various reports of federal technical supervision instances that attest Teslas have the highest failure rates: Germany: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tuev-report-2026-tesla-mo... Denmark: https://fdm.dk/nyheder/nyt-om-trafik-og-biler/tesla-skandale... Ireland: https://www.rsa.ie/road-safety/statistics/nct-statistics-and... At some point you have to acknowledge the data as facts.

I kind of don't really care, as long as I get good service if my car is affected. I'm not defending them here. The next few years will tell if it was a bad buy or not. So far I'm really happy with it. My point was there's a huge anti-Tesla bias entirely as a reaction to Elon Musk. It's emotional, not rational. It's not objective criticism of Tesla. Sure, there are some awful moves he's made, vision only, FSD claims,…

Outside of the personal opinions of Musk, what is the most annoying for me is the constant false promises.

They sell cars based on promises that a missing function will work in a few months/years and that your car will be compatible.

With the years of feedback we have now, we know that those were not promises but lies.

Other brands sell as-is cars, without empty promises. (outside the stupid "perfect outback trip" in every SUV/pickup ad)

I now see Musk as a con man, a very smart con man with a lot of money, not a visionary.

Yes there is dieselgate and yes, every car manufacturer tries to circumvent the system to improve profit. (Every includes also Tesla)

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