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Android’s desktop interface leaks

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Re: Android’s desktop interface leaks

#351

Post by digiown »

palata wrote: post #345
digiown wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh, I'm ok with not having root on my phone. What I'm not ok with is not being able to flash whatever I want to run on it later without unlocking and wiping. For this reason I have an automated script to verify Graphene's signatures and replace them with my own. This would give me the ability to extract data using root at a later date, for example.

> What I'm not ok with is not being able to flash whatever I want to run on it later without unlocking and wiping. The wiping is a security feature: if someone installs a new random system ("random" being defined as "not signed by the same entity"), then they can modify the system in order to attack it. The whole secure boot idea is worthless if you allow that.

I don't disagree. I just don't want the trusted entity to be other than me.

Note that secure boot doesn't become worthless just because you can flash something different. The TPM should notice SB is turned off, and should refuse to decrypt, but there should be a way for the user to back up the key and use it to recover the data later.

Re: Android’s desktop interface leaks

#353

Post by ecape »

jeroenhd wrote: post #183
modeless wrote: post #179

They ought to put the status bar at the bottom. All the designers using Macs probably forgot, but Chrome's tab interface was designed for Windows where it could be all the way at the top of the screen. And in general it's more common for desktop apps designed for mouse and keyboard to have frequently accessed UI elements at the top of the window than the bottom. So desktop apps would benefit from being able to use th…

Auto-hide the task bar at the bottom, and you've basically got the Gnome UI. Works just fine. It's the permanent screen reservation of the double task bar that really eats up the usable desk space. Samsung's task bar (when you enable the DeX integration on a tablet) also supports this and it makes for a fine user experience. Edit: I've enabled "force desktop mode" on my Pixel 9 Pro and hooked it up to my laptop dock.…

My previous Pixel (a 4a) had problems with getting unduly warm. I've heard it's better on later models but still not solved. How has your 9 Pro done with heat?

Re: Android’s desktop interface leaks

#354

Post by jeroenhd »

ecape wrote: post #353
jeroenhd wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Auto-hide the task bar at the bottom, and you've basically got the Gnome UI. Works just fine. It's the permanent screen reservation of the double task bar that really eats up the usable desk space. Samsung's task bar (when you enable the DeX integration on a tablet) also supports this and it makes for a fine user experience. Edit: I've enabled "force desktop mode" on my Pixel 9 Pro and hooked it up to my laptop dock.…

My previous Pixel (a 4a) had problems with getting unduly warm. I've heard it's better on later models but still not solved. How has your 9 Pro done with heat?

I haven't noticed much. It can get hot when I'm taxing it (i.e. running large LLMs), but it takes a lot for the rather underpowered Tensor SoC to get warm.

Re: Android’s desktop interface leaks

#355

Post by digiown »

palata wrote: post #348
digiown wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is more that you're forced to use Google's OS. Usually just less convenient, but often in a literal sense too with these government services increasingly requiring attestation.

Yes, I totally agree with that. I really, really want to be able to install my own OS on the device I am supposed to own .

And also a third party should not be able to inspect my device and discriminate against my owned device. The device should attest its authenticity to me (or my organization that owns it) alone. Arguably, this is a social/political problem more than a technical one, but it tends to have a similar effect by imposing a cost on having control over your own computing (now you need to carry two phones).

Also while you can debate about stuff like Netflix DRM, access to banks and government services is not a privilege, it is a right (for a transaction that isn't otherwise illegal). The counterparty is not subject to freedom of association because in many places it is illegal to have cash transactions over a certain amount, and you can't choose a different government.

Re: Android’s desktop interface leaks

#357

Post by IshKebab »

DownrightNifty wrote: post #275
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elements on the top of the screen have virtually infinite height, and elements in the corners have infinite height and width. You can't aim "too high" for something at the top of the screen. Status bars on top don't make sense if you have tabs on top. Now your tabs are infinitely smaller, and aiming at them requires a lot more effort. Mac's original design had the menubar on top, and its windows didn't have tabs, so…

The linked article seems to imply that this remains a good design choice even today: > The use of this rule can be seen for example in MacOS, which always places the menu bar on the top left edge of the screen instead of the current program's windowframe. I guess now that the browser is the one app you probably spend the most amount of time in, it might make a little less sense? Android's lack of a menu bar system ma…

Apple's design never made sense. It's fine when apps are maximised but it gets very confusing when apps are not maximised and the menu is very far from the app that it belongs to.

Since it only works well for maximised apps, the UX is much better if you just merge the menu into the title bar of apps.

Re: Android’s desktop interface leaks

#358

Post by vulcan01 »

jeroenhd wrote: post #318
modeless wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hiding the bottom bar doesn't solve the problem because it still takes the corners away. You can't put UI there because the bottom bar will come up and cover it when you mouse into the corner. The OS is taking all four corners for itself. Greedy! Apps should have that space. Apps are what we are here to use and the OS is getting in the way.

macOS doesn't seem to care and that's what all the designers use. I'm guessing people think it's pretty? The dock would also better if it weren't stretched to the entire screen width by default but perhaps Google is planning to use that space for something. It's also possible they're going to remove the top bar at some point, that'd make the UI standard Windows-shaped. The Gnome trick for the dock is to only show the…

macOS provides enough utility in the menu bar to justify having it (unified menu -- unlike the Android UI shown in the article).

Re: Android’s desktop interface leaks

#359

Post by usagisushi »

dannyfritz07 wrote: post #352
usagisushi wrote: post #340

Tried the desktop mode on my Pixel 8 running GrapheneOS. It's getting very close to being usable. https://imgur.com/a/Wfv6Hmt

Dang. is that tmux, cmatrix, mise, and node running on your android device? Or is that an ssh session?

Actually, it's the Android 16 Linux Terminal (pKVM) [1], so it's 100% on-device. Since this is a full VM, unlike Termux, you can run Docker too! (Though Termux is more stable and lightweight for daily use.)

[1]: https://www.androidauthority.com/android-16-linux-terminal-d...

Re: Android’s desktop interface leaks

#360

Post by roysting »

jeroenhd wrote: post #183
modeless wrote: post #179

They ought to put the status bar at the bottom. All the designers using Macs probably forgot, but Chrome's tab interface was designed for Windows where it could be all the way at the top of the screen. And in general it's more common for desktop apps designed for mouse and keyboard to have frequently accessed UI elements at the top of the window than the bottom. So desktop apps would benefit from being able to use th…

Auto-hide the task bar at the bottom, and you've basically got the Gnome UI. Works just fine. It's the permanent screen reservation of the double task bar that really eats up the usable desk space. Samsung's task bar (when you enable the DeX integration on a tablet) also supports this and it makes for a fine user experience. Edit: I've enabled "force desktop mode" on my Pixel 9 Pro and hooked it up to my laptop dock.…

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