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Microsoft May Have Created the Slowest Windows in 25 Years with Windows 11

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Re: Microsoft May Have Created the Slowest Windows in 25 Years with Windows 11

#351

Post by dada78641 »

The thing that really offends me about Windows 11 is that new right click menu that takes like 500 ms to appear each time you use it and is less useful than the old one.

Recently I've been experimenting with Atlas, Revi and Ghost Spectre, which are custom stripped versions of Windows, and it's such a breath of fresh air. It really makes me feel like if only they'd just ruthlessly pull out all the new garbage without regard for "but we just made and shipped this", Windows would actually be pretty good.

Say what you want about Apple and their slow descent into a fully walled garden where independent software development is slowly eroded and sabotaged, but even their most reviled update in years (macOS 26) is still miles ahead of Windows 11 in terms of cohesion and polish.

Re: Microsoft May Have Created the Slowest Windows in 25 Years with Windows 11

#352

Post by pacifika »

BoredPositron wrote: post #156
ncpa-cpl wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Calc! It takes about 5 seconds to load. And search is so unreliable mixing web and local results.

Best part is that on a fresh install without internet you are not able to use it...well all of the modern replacement apps.

Yeah first time Windows Clock wouldn’t restore because the net wasn’t ready I was shocked

Re: Microsoft May Have Created the Slowest Windows in 25 Years with Windows 11

#353

Post by pacifika »

kachapopopow wrote: post #103

to be fair windows 11 is the most secure windows ever created, the amount of random checks it has is astonishing. Unfortunately it gets undermined by poor driver code from third-parties, much less of a problem with hyper-v based security, but still a huge problem. Obviously all these security features cost performance and something that linux and macos can live without since they generally do not have closed source d…

> be fair windows 11 is the most secure windows ever created

Every patch Tuesday they’re fixing more insecurities that previous Windows didn’t have.

Re: Microsoft May Have Created the Slowest Windows in 25 Years with Windows 11

#354

Post by spixy »

antisthenes wrote: post #248
epolanski wrote: post #29

I liked the path windows was going in late 2010s. WSL, power toys, many great utils, great performance. But it has since then stalled and got increasingly worse. Especially with this AI shoving everywhere, not even mentioning getting ads at some point in notifications and start menu. I'm not particularly in love with MacOS either (but have no realistic alternative on my MacBooks). I'm more and more inclined of switch…

> I liked the path windows was going in late 2010s. Surely there's a typo there, and you meant late 2000s, e.g. 2009? Late 2010s Windows was W10 with constant system-breaking bugs, mobile-first interface, more and more data mining and adware my MS, etc.

Windows 8/10 were more stable than XP/Vista.

Not sure what is bad with data mining / telemetry (as long it is anonymised and respects GDPR).

Adware is issue only on Windows 11.

Re: Microsoft May Have Created the Slowest Windows in 25 Years with Windows 11

#355

Post by steve1977 »

pjmlp wrote: post #346
steve1977 wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying it's perfect. Just that it's less of a mess than the situation on Windows.

Again, listen to those podcasts, especially how Apple has (not) handled bug reports. Between Carbon, Cocoa, UI Touch, UI Kit, Catalyst, Swift UI, there is plenty to chose from, with many non overlapping capabilities. Then there is naturally the whole plethora of Kits, with several deprecated and replaced by others without feature parity, https://marcoeidinger.github.io/appleframeworks/

Carbon is long deprecated and as mentioned was only ever meant as a transitional framework.

Cocoa still exists and is usable. UITouch is not a framework, but a class in UIKit. UIkit still exists and is usable. Same for Catalyst. Same for SwiftUI.

As said, I'm not pretending everything is sunshine and roses in Apple-Land. But at least Apple seems to mostly dogfood their own frameworks, which unfortunately doesn't seem to be the case anymore with Microsoft. WinUI 3 and WPF are supposed to be the "official" frameworks to use, but it seems Microsoft themselves are not using them consistently and they also don't seem to put a lot of resources behind them.

Re: Microsoft May Have Created the Slowest Windows in 25 Years with Windows 11

#356

Post by spixy »

dawnerd wrote: post #300
skrebbel wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is common for any self-updating software that you use infrequently. A friend of mine complained that he hated how Firefox "always" wants to restart with an update. I couldn't understand what he was on about. Turned out I use Firefox daily and he uses it like once every 2 months to test something and yeah, Firefox has an update out every 2 months or so, so that fits. It's the same with Windows (and, I assume, mac…

My Mac doesn’t randomly reboot, doesn’t force updates on shutdown, doesn’t have weekly updates that require updates. IMO Apple handles updates much better than Windows. Windows still reboots instead of shut down when you do update and shut down.

They fixed it recently: https://www.techpowerup.com/342538/windows-11-finally-fixes-...

Re: Microsoft May Have Created the Slowest Windows in 25 Years with Windows 11

#357

Post by tarsinge »

api wrote: post #83
spikej wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even without the AI, it's replacing native apps with web based ones. Case in point: Notepad. It's slower than WordPad on Win 10... and crashes!

The reason for this is that it's hard to hire native UI developers, but easy to hire web devs. Something like 90% of all new devs today learn only cloud-native backend dev or web frontend dev. The only exceptions tends to be mobile and game developers. Collectively cloud+web, mobile, and games account for like 98% of all new devs it seems. Nobody learns anything else. The web is going to become the desktop UI in the…

The analogy with evolution breaks down because currently the fitness function is broken. It would work in a world where anti trust would be still enforced, where customers could vote with their money instead of having to deal with enshitiffied monopolies. In a world where tech CEOs can buy a dinner to stay above the law, where tech is used as a weapon of influence so that other countries like in the EU are not allowed under penalty of sanctions to not use US platforms even when it breaks their law, it is reassuring for engineer minds but ultimately pointless to explain the state of the industry from market dynamics alone.

Re: Microsoft May Have Created the Slowest Windows in 25 Years with Windows 11

#358

Post by pjmlp »

steve1977 wrote: post #355
pjmlp wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, listen to those podcasts, especially how Apple has (not) handled bug reports. Between Carbon, Cocoa, UI Touch, UI Kit, Catalyst, Swift UI, there is plenty to chose from, with many non overlapping capabilities. Then there is naturally the whole plethora of Kits, with several deprecated and replaced by others without feature parity, https://marcoeidinger.github.io/appleframeworks/

Carbon is long deprecated and as mentioned was only ever meant as a transitional framework. Cocoa still exists and is usable. UITouch is not a framework, but a class in UIKit. UIkit still exists and is usable. Same for Catalyst. Same for SwiftUI. As said, I'm not pretending everything is sunshine and roses in Apple-Land. But at least Apple seems to mostly dogfood their own frameworks, which unfortunately doesn't seem…

Win32, MFC, Windows Forms, and WPF also exist and are quite usable.

Apple also doesn't always uses their stuff as they are supposed to, Webviews are used in a few "native" apps, some macOS apps are actually iOS ones ported via Catalyst, which is the reason they feel strange, and many other stuff I could list.

Two measures, two weights.

Re: Microsoft May Have Created the Slowest Windows in 25 Years with Windows 11

#359

Post by doubleg72 »

jaredhallen wrote: post #336
hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want an OS to simply do stuff Linux is now clearly superior. However, I found Omarchy to be whatever the opposite of a sweet spot is. It brings all the complications of a tiling WM, so you still have to learn a complicated new way of using your system, but at the same time it is extremely opinionated so instead of ending with a tailored custom tiling WM that suits your needs at the end of the learning curve, y…

I love Linux. I've been using it for about 25 years now. I try to be a realist, and historically, it has always been my opinion that it is a less polished experience, suitable mainly for power users. But my opinion now is that many flavors actually do offer a superior desktop user experience for most use cases.

Same here, we’ve hit parity with Windows

Re: Microsoft May Have Created the Slowest Windows in 25 Years with Windows 11

#360

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

ok123456 wrote: post #230
water-data-dude wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regrettably, I have to use a windows machine for work. The other day I got one where the "fact" was an offer to help me pic out the right laptop or tablet to get the most out of copilot. To stoke my rage into an incandescent fury, if you go to settings -> Lock Screen, there's no obvious way to disable it at first. You have to change the background image from "Microsoft Spotlight", the one where the image changes to a…

Back when people customized screensavers, you would put the .scr file (a regular exe) in the Windows directory, and it would populate the list of screen savers? I'm guessing that's no longer a thing in the name of security theater.

Not so much security theater as a large number of exploits were disguised as .scr files as it was easy to trick a user into downloading one and then it would run with full system access
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