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Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

eupolicy.social

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Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#351

Post by scott_w »

Supernaut wrote: post #265
writebetterc wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (not counting emergency and service vehicles) Just gotta read the last line too :P

What do you mean, at a practical level, when you set out your "priority list" above? Are you referring to the use of congestion charges to discourage private motor vehicle use?

It’s entirely dependent on the situation. Some areas, additional charges work best. In others, it’s possible/necessary to redesign road and street layouts to prioritise higher-density modes of transport and physically discourage low-density modes like cars. This might be priority lights for public transport, lowering speed limits and narrowing streets. In some contexts, it’s necessary to completely disallow cars with things like bus lanes, bike/pedestrian-only areas. Separated tram/metro lines, too.

Most of this infrastructure, in practice, also aids emergency vehicle use as they can usually fit down bike lanes and are obviously able to fit in bus lanes.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#352

Post by jijijijij »

well_ackshually wrote: post #124
stickfigure wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If your C15 breaks down in a field, you can fix it with a wrench. I could. My wife couldn't. Also, let's not forget the creature comforts of modern cars... rear seats, airbags, sound insulation, power steering, automatic transmissions, 4wd. Living in the country, tool-vehicles are very useful. This is typically a beat up old 2wd pickup truck (lower is easier to load) with an 8-ft bed (so you can load full sheets of…

>I could. My wife couldn't. Because she doesn't drive a C15. Believe me, rural french women _will_ fix a C15. There's nothing to break down anyways, the engine is happy to run on distilled corn and melted rubber for oil, the suspension is what suspension, three tires ought to be enough for everyone. > rear seats, There's rear benches for you whole family and space for your kids to play around in the back while you're…

> Pickup trucks are not used by anyone serious anywhere else in the world.

Excuse me?! Pickup trucks are the sole foundation of motorized defense in some regions! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_(vehicle)

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#353

Post by nandomrumber »

Aurornis wrote: post #207
tanjtanjtanj wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as an anecdote - When I was buying my last car I went in and asked for just the base model with nothing added onto it, ie not even the "eXtra Special" designations, and the dealership said they probably won't have any for a long time and if I'd like to pay 50% more for one with some features added on. I declined and kept looking at the inventory of the 4-5 dealerships nearest to me. For six months they never had…

> and the dealership said they probably won't have any for a long time In my case, I told the dealerships I was okay with waiting up to two years to get the exact trim I wanted. I told them whichever dealership could get me an allocation first got the sale. Then I literally stood up to leave. And like magic, they went to the computer and found the exact trim I wanted and got my allocation a month out. I was extremely…

>> When I was buying my last car I went in and asked

> In my case, I told

Exactly.

When you’re paying, you don’t ask, you tell.

This is what I want, and this is what I’ll pay.

Don’t get me started on fucking real estate agents either. Parasites. Real estate sells itself. Conveyancers / Solicitors do all the real work, and typically charge a set fee. Real estate agents typically charge a percentage and they literally don’t do anything.

The sales folk at a car dealership aren’t there to help you.

There is literally no situation bad enough that a car sales agent or real estate agent can’t make worse. Incapacitated pilot? Fucking useless. Need a dental cavity filled? Fucking useless. Got a problem with your Goggomobil? fucking useless.

Packing peanuts are more effective at their claimed benefits than car sales agents and real estate agents are at theirs.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#354

Post by immibis »

Fiveplus wrote: post #12

The C15 represents a time when a vehicle was a tool. I feel vehicles want to turn into a subscription service these days. I still see these running in rural Spain and France, usually held together with wire and hope, clocking like what 400k+ km? The XUD diesel engines are practically unkillable. They have no ECU to brick, no adblue sensors to fail and put the car into limp mode and thankfully none of those DRM locked…

It's not just vehicles. It's everything, as it's caused by changes that happened to the highest-level command structures of our economy.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#355

Post by acheron »

cuu508 wrote: post #322
jfengel wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it has any OEM infotainment. I think there is some kind of software in there but I've never looked at it. It's not intrusive.

Looking at image search for "2020 impreza dash" there's a screen above climate controls in all images. I was asking if there was an option to have no sceen.

Backup cameras are required by regulation since the late 2010s. You can’t sell a car with no screen.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#356

Post by everdrive »

loeg wrote: post #270
Fiveplus wrote: post #12

The C15 represents a time when a vehicle was a tool. I feel vehicles want to turn into a subscription service these days. I still see these running in rural Spain and France, usually held together with wire and hope, clocking like what 400k+ km? The XUD diesel engines are practically unkillable. They have no ECU to brick, no adblue sensors to fail and put the car into limp mode and thankfully none of those DRM locked…

Modern cars break down less than older cars -- they are more reliable, not less. They generate more power, with better emissions. They have a wealth of creature comforts and features beyond what 1980s cars had.

> They have a wealth of creature comforts and features beyond what 1980s cars had.

I don't want these, I don't want to pay for them. They raise the cost and they're unavoidable. This is a NEGATIVE, not a positive.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#357

Post by torginus »

Aurornis wrote: post #341
loeg wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern cars break down less than older cars -- they are more reliable, not less. They generate more power, with better emissions. They have a wealth of creature comforts and features beyond what 1980s cars had.

Declining service revenue has been a problem for car dealerships for a long time. EVs are only making it even harder as their maintenance needs are reduced further. This is another topic where people look back on the past with rose colored glasses. At the risk of downvotes, this happens a lot on HN like in threads where people speak about their pre-SSD era computers as being faster and snappier than modern machines.…

EVs are not more reliable in general, at least not according to the stats. And a lot of them haven't been on the road for long enough to know how their running costs will look like when they are a decade or two old.

There's just been an article here on HN, that BMW installed a crash safety fuse that triggered on a minor fender-bender and killed the battery. It was WELDED in, and even after getting to it with a torch and installing a new one, the ICU needed to be hacked to accept the new part.

They're also full of proprietary parts, basically you have entire car functions integrated to the same PCB, which are essentially unrepairable.

I hope I'm wrong, but I guess there'll be a major disillusionment with EVs once these cars get to 10-15 years and people find out in mass, that it's no longer economical to fix them.

I'm not an EV hater, I'm more of a pessimist - when it comes to manufacturers, I'm kinda 'pricing in' the worst behavior.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#358

Post by immibis »

torginus wrote: post #342
vincnetas wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My EV is lighter than your ICE. Volkswagen eUP. 1183kg. 250km range in summer conditions.

I love the idea of these tiny EVs. Apparently the EU's making some legislation for them so that they can go without much of the expensive 'safety' equipment such as driver tracking. Parking cars in cities not designed for them is a nightmare, but getting around with a car is so much faster than public transport, even if your city's is fairly decent.

tangential: people also underestimate the convenience of public transport being a one-way trip, meaning you can go from A>B>C>D>A and never have to go back to a previous spot to pick up a part of your luggage that you left behind.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#359

Post by GuB-42 »

KronisLV wrote: post #19
Fiveplus wrote: post #12

The C15 represents a time when a vehicle was a tool. I feel vehicles want to turn into a subscription service these days. I still see these running in rural Spain and France, usually held together with wire and hope, clocking like what 400k+ km? The XUD diesel engines are practically unkillable. They have no ECU to brick, no adblue sensors to fail and put the car into limp mode and thankfully none of those DRM locked…

> The C15 represents a time when a vehicle was a tool. I feel vehicles want to turn into a subscription service these days. I wonder how differently cars would be built, if instead of maximizing for value extraction and crap nobody needs, they instead were optimized for utility and maintenance (and sure, fuel economy, aerodynamics and some sane environmental stuff). Like take the C15 and add 2-4 decades of manufactur…

Not easy I would say.

Safety improvement means larger crumple zones, reinforcement, etc... Which mean a bigger and heavier vehicle if you want to keep the same capacity. That in turn means a more powerful engine, brakes, wheels and tyres, etc... further increasing the size and weight of the vehicle. This is an exponential factor.

Fuel economy and environmental stuff (which are linked) come with tighter engine control for better combustion and cleaner exhaust. It means tighter tolerances so simple tools may be less appropriate, and electronics.

And there are comfort elements that are hard to pass nowadays: A/C, power steering, door lock and windows. Mandatory safety equipment like airbags and ABS. Even simple cars like what Dacia makes are still bigger, heavier and more complex than older cars like the C15, they don't really have a choice.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#360

Post by otterley »

loeg wrote: post #290
otterley wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you’re in the Pacific Northwest, in which case, they are issued to every new resident (myself included). Traded in my Ford Explorer for a Subaru Outback and could not be happier.

AWD has regulatory advantage in Washington state (you're allowed to go over the mountain passes without snow chains in most conditions, even though a RWD or FWD vehicle with snow tires would be just fine in the same conditions), and Subarus are all AWD. I think that's part of it. When I bought a new car last year, I made sure to get AWD -- not because I have any specific need for AWD performance, but because of this…

FWIW I bought a couple pairs of traction control cables for the Outback, just in case. I don’t know that I’ll ever need them, but better to have them and not need them than need them and not have them.

I’ve used them on 2WD vehicles in the past and they’re way easier to install than old-school chains, since they’re self-tensioning. Super Z cables, if anyone is interested.

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