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European Commission issues call for evidence on open source

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Re: European Commission issues call for evidence on open source

#351

Post by danaris »

dizlexic wrote: post #199
lossyalgo wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current socio-political climate is actually making this analogy less US-centric by the day :( edit: I'm specifically referring to people losing their jobs and similar retaliations due to being on the left, or making public statements that the current administration and supporters don't like.

It didn't start when it was people losing their jobs on the right? Brandon Eich's political donation comes to mind.

"People losing their jobs on the right" can, in every case I'm aware of, be reworded as "people losing their jobs because they oppose basic human rights for certain categories of people."

Over the past few decades, and especially since about 2008, "the right" has become the refuge for every kind of bigotry (especially, though not solely, in the USA). Trying to defend that bigotry by crying about political neutrality is...well, to be polite I'll just say it's pretty ugly and leave it at that.

Re: European Commission issues call for evidence on open source

#352

Post by rdm_blackhole »

menaerus wrote: post #349
rdm_blackhole wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you? I am a European business owner just FYI. I know very well how much taxes I am paying each month.

It always amazes me that there is a subset of EU people here on HN who are so detached from reality that it makes me wonder if these same people are sitting in Brussels board making decisions. According to the sh*thole in which EU ended up, it is not completely implausible. Can't agree more with what you're saying. My experience is the same.

I hear you.

It's frustrating really to have these conversations with people who will deny the reality this much.

Instead of using this opportunity to ask the questions that everyone should be asking, which are amongst others "how can we fix this mess?" , you end up with people who think you are simply attacking the EU for spite when it couldn't be further from the truth.

It's sad but not surprising and until that changes then nothing will change.

Europeans need to start being humble again and need to get to work otherwise then we shouldn't be surprised if the US squeezes us from one side while China out-innovates us from the other side. In the meantime the EU is debating if/when it should amend it's cookie law, I am not sure if I should laugh or cry at this point.

Re: European Commission issues call for evidence on open source

#353

Post by palata »

menaerus wrote: post #348
palata wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I could disagree more :-).

Sorry for being ignorant but in what universe do you live? It can't be more true than it (sadly) is. Everything what has been said is factual.

Opinions are not facts.

Re: European Commission issues call for evidence on open source

#354

Post by palata »

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #334
palata wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why stay in Berlin or Paris where you can make 50K to 70K euros a year at most and pay close to 40% or 50% in taxes when you can make double or triple that in the US Have you ever talked to Europeans in your life?

Have you? I am a European business owner just FYI. I know very well how much taxes I am paying each month.

> I am a European business owner

Exactly. This sentence on its own is enough to explain your opinion, there is no need to explain anything else. Those who are against regulations are the ones who benefit from the lack of regulations.

And those who are in a dominant position generally think that they are there because they deserve it, because they are superior.

Re: European Commission issues call for evidence on open source

#355

Post by palata »

menaerus wrote: post #349
rdm_blackhole wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you? I am a European business owner just FYI. I know very well how much taxes I am paying each month.

It always amazes me that there is a subset of EU people here on HN who are so detached from reality that it makes me wonder if these same people are sitting in Brussels board making decisions. According to the sh*thole in which EU ended up, it is not completely implausible. Can't agree more with what you're saying. My experience is the same.

It always amazes me that there are people who genuinely believe that those who disagree with them are "so detached from reality".

You are a genius, everybody else is dumb. Way to go. Have you already received your Nobels?

Re: European Commission issues call for evidence on open source

#356

Post by palata »

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #352
menaerus wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always amazes me that there is a subset of EU people here on HN who are so detached from reality that it makes me wonder if these same people are sitting in Brussels board making decisions. According to the sh*thole in which EU ended up, it is not completely implausible. Can't agree more with what you're saying. My experience is the same.

I hear you. It's frustrating really to have these conversations with people who will deny the reality this much. Instead of using this opportunity to ask the questions that everyone should be asking, which are amongst others "how can we fix this mess?" , you end up with people who think you are simply attacking the EU for spite when it couldn't be further from the truth. It's sad but not surprising and until that cha…

> you end up with people who think you are simply attacking the EU

That's not what I think. But you obviously lack the level of empathy you would need to accept that I may think differently. I accept that you think the way you think: you benefit from it as a business owner.

> Instead of using this opportunity to ask the questions

Yeah, because you are so superior to everybody else that people should ask you question, and their opinions are not worth your time.

"I am the best, I am so frustrated that so many people don't recognise it".

Re: European Commission issues call for evidence on open source

#357

Post by rdm_blackhole »

palata wrote: post #354
rdm_blackhole wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you? I am a European business owner just FYI. I know very well how much taxes I am paying each month.

> I am a European business owner Exactly. This sentence on its own is enough to explain your opinion, there is no need to explain anything else. Those who are against regulations are the ones who benefit from the lack of regulations. And those who are in a dominant position generally think that they are there because they deserve it, because they are superior.

> And those who are in a dominant position generally think that they are there because they deserve it, because they are superior.

And this sentence explains your opinion. Business owner = superior = bad

You haven't responded to anything anyone has said despite the fact that a few of us seem to agree on these issues.

You basically brush aside anything that does not conform to your narrative and you also dismiss the entire report of Mario Draghi on European competitiveness: https://commission.europa.eu/topics/competitiveness/draghi-r... who agrees that there are many issues currently with the entire tech industry in Europe.

The facts are simple: - the EU tech scene is minuscule compared to the US tech scene - the average salary of a tech worker is higher in the US than in Europe - there are many incredible challenges in Europe that stop Europe from competing properly with the US companies - there is a clear lack of innovation and a very real risk aversion and less cash spent on R&D in Europe compared to the US - European competitiveness is lacking and decreasing as time goes on compared to the US

> Those who are against regulations are the ones who benefit from the lack of regulations.

But you are right let's keep adding more rules and regulations, I am sure the next one will do the trick and help us expand our tech sector.

That would be a great narrative except that even the European commission disagrees with you since they are now exploring the option of scaling back some part of GDPR and even delaying the new AI laws because they suddenly realized that it was a major impediment to a healthy tech sector in Europe: https://iapp.org/news/a/european-commission-proposes-signifi...

In conclusion, you are arguing in bad faith, you believe what you believe because it's easier than to face the facts that Europe dropped the ball 20 years ago and missed the boat on many new technologies and that it is now trying to play catch up and unfortunately catching up will take many decades if that ever happens.

Re: European Commission issues call for evidence on open source

#358

Post by rdm_blackhole »

palata wrote: post #356
rdm_blackhole wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you. It's frustrating really to have these conversations with people who will deny the reality this much. Instead of using this opportunity to ask the questions that everyone should be asking, which are amongst others "how can we fix this mess?" , you end up with people who think you are simply attacking the EU for spite when it couldn't be further from the truth. It's sad but not surprising and until that cha…

> you end up with people who think you are simply attacking the EU That's not what I think. But you obviously lack the level of empathy you would need to accept that I may think differently. I accept that you think the way you think: you benefit from it as a business owner. > Instead of using this opportunity to ask the questions Yeah, because you are so superior to everybody else that people should ask you question,…

> you benefit from it as a business owner.

When one has no response it's easier to blame the messenger. A nice cop out if I may say so.

> Yeah, because you are so superior to everybody else that people should ask you question, and their opinions are not worth your time

You are putting words in my mouth and arguing in bad faith but that's easier than making a compelling case with facts and figures.

> "I am the best, I am so frustrated that so many people don't recognise it".

If I was the only one highlighting these problems then maybe you would have point but as I have demonstrated in my other comments, the EU commission disagrees with you, the Draghi report disagrees with you and a few people here also disagree with you.

Unfortunately instead of engaging in a healthy debate and addressing the points that have been raised, you have brushed aside all the arguments and refuse to respond with anything that supports your point of view.

You decided that you were right so you are right but you don't seem to have a problem calling out other people by telling then that their opinions are not facts, while yourself ignoring all the facts presented to you. That is a clear case of double standards if I have ever seen one.

Re: European Commission issues call for evidence on open source

#359

Post by menaerus »

palata wrote: post #355
menaerus wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always amazes me that there is a subset of EU people here on HN who are so detached from reality that it makes me wonder if these same people are sitting in Brussels board making decisions. According to the sh*thole in which EU ended up, it is not completely implausible. Can't agree more with what you're saying. My experience is the same.

It always amazes me that there are people who genuinely believe that those who disagree with them are "so detached from reality". You are a genius, everybody else is dumb. Way to go. Have you already received your Nobels?

Not yet and I'm not sure I'm gonna receive it ever but one of the most important things I learned for myself is to understand my limits. I advise you to do the same.

Re: European Commission issues call for evidence on open source

#360

Post by supermatt »

u8080 wrote: post #314
supermatt wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Active kernel contributors are spread all around the world, with a pretty even distribution across USA, Western Europe and Asia. Your suggestion that the US government would lean on the citizenship of Torvalds in order to exert control over the kernel should be laughable but I concede that anything is possible these days.

It is not laughable, Linux directly complies with SDN list[1] and US sanction policy(i.e. removing of russian developers by Linus). Thus, US does have and execute control over Linux kernel currently. [1] https://www.linuxfoundation.org/blog/navigating-global-regul...

I think you have some confusion about the role of the Linux Foundation in relation to the kernel. They provide financial, organisational, and infrastructural support and neither own nor control its development.

Linus is the BDFL and lead maintainer and if he wanted to move the kernel development anywhere else he could do so, but Linus Torvalds has stated that he personally agrees with them.

That is not the US controlling him, it is his own decision. Moreover he has dual citizenship and could renounce his US citizenship if he chose. When Greg takes over maintainership things may be different.

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