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Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)

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Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)

#351

Post by 331c8c71 »

overgard wrote: post #288
Aurornis wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re exactly right: This one incident did not shape the entire body of scientific research. There is a common trick used in contrarian argumentation where a single flaw is used to “debunk” an entire side of the debate. The next step, often implied rather than explicit, is to push the reader into assuming that the opposite position must therefore be the correct one. They don’t want you to apply the same level of rig…

I think common sense here can be a guide though. You don't need sugar at all, excluding high levels of anaerobic exercise. Your liver can produce the glucose your body actually needs from other sources (gluconeogenesis) and a lot of your tissues that use glucose also can use fatty acids or ketones. Fructose isn't needed at all. ("low blood sugar" isn't a symptom of not consuming enough sugar, it's a symptom of a disr…

Looks like it's true that low-carb adapted athletes rely more on fat oxidation during exercise but performance suffers nonetheless because of increased oxygen demands that basically cannot be met.

Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)

#352

Post by samename »

devilsdata wrote: post #338
brodouevencode wrote: post #199

The new dietary guidelines are much more sensible IMO, compared to the food pyramid or MyPlate. https://cdn.realfood.gov/DGA.pdf

It recommends eating more saturated fats from dairy and meat, both of which are very bad for CVD.

> In general, saturated fat consumption should not exceed 10% of total daily calories. Significantly limiting highly processed foods will help meet this goal. More high-quality research is needed to determine which types of dietary fats best support long-term health.

Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)

#353

Post by nomnomconflicts »

rendaw wrote: post #12

When this news first came out it was mind blowing, but at the same time I don't entirely get it. So the money quote seems to be: > The literature review heavily criticized studies linking sucrose to heart disease, while ignoring limitations of studies investigating dietary fats. They paid a total of 2 people $50,000 (edit: in 2016 dollars). That doesn't seem like enough to entirely shape worldwide discourse around nu…

> They paid a total of 2 people $50,000 (edit: in 2016 dollars).

> That doesn't seem like enough to entirely shape worldwide discourse around nutrition and sugar.

A contradictory example where this does occur is in propaganda. Technology can be applied to maximize the reach and influence of otherwise inferior arguments at a fraction of the cost. A relatively small sequence of "shows" or "films" can disproportionately affect the world view of billions.

edit: The adoption of cigarettes across the world was affected by a significantly much smaller investment in ad placement compared to its global adoption and affects due to the reach and amplification "of technology".

Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)

#354

Post by darth_avocado »

overgard wrote: post #290
darth_avocado wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think “Everything in Moderation” means you won’t get too much of the bad stuff. The philosophy alludes to the fact that in the modern world, trying to have the ideal diet is exhausting and near impossible. Lack of choice, money, time, education, self control etc. all contribute to you intentionally or unintentionally eating stuff that’s going to do irreparable harm to you. You could be eating salads and someh…

Is it really that exhausting though? I've been on a zero-carb diet for two months (other than thanksgiving or christmas), and it really hasn't been hard at all. If I eat at a restaurant there's some things I can't avoid (seed oils), but otherwise it's not too hard to look at a menu and see things I can eat. The only hard part is to be optimally healthy I need to cook for myself, but that's always been true. In a lot…

People who don’t make money, have to take care of childcare while working 2-3 jobs, probably aren’t able to cook themselves. Nor are the people who live in food deserts that only have limited options able to optimize around a specific diet that’s not restricted by availability.

I cook my own food and optimize around eating healthy. I wouldn’t be able to do it if I made less money or had a more demanding job or didn’t have great grocery stores in a 10 mile radius or had to spend time in childcare or any of the other completely valid reasons people have.

Besides, you yourself just described “do things in moderation” yourself: holidays, Christmas, restaurants etc. That’s really what the philosophy is.

Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)

#355

Post by stefantalpalaru »

rendaw wrote: post #12

When this news first came out it was mind blowing, but at the same time I don't entirely get it. So the money quote seems to be: > The literature review heavily criticized studies linking sucrose to heart disease, while ignoring limitations of studies investigating dietary fats. They paid a total of 2 people $50,000 (edit: in 2016 dollars). That doesn't seem like enough to entirely shape worldwide discourse around nu…

[dead]

Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)

#356

Post by anthomtb »

lfliosdjf wrote: post #340

Has any one successfully code with same focus after cutting sugar? Seems sugar is really important for focus. Whats your experience?

I did keto for a few months a long time ago (2010/2011). This was early in my career and long coding and debug sessions were a normal part of my day-to-day.

There was zero impact to my work focus, positive or negative, from cutting nearly all carbohydrates out for several months.

I am curious were you heard or learned that "sugar is really important for focus". Just a vibe, perhaps?

Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)

#357

Post by 331c8c71 »

lfliosdjf wrote: post #340

Has any one successfully code with same focus after cutting sugar? Seems sugar is really important for focus. Whats your experience?

If anything focus gets better without sugar and excessive carbs for me - but those work well for outdoors or workouty days I find.

Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)

#358

Post by loeg »

aldarion wrote: post #156
giacomoforte wrote: post #65

Aren't both sugar and saturated fat problemtic, and complementary in contributing to CVD?

High-fat high-carb diet certainly is. There is however no conclusive data that high-fat low-carb diet OR low-fat high-carb diet contribute to CVD.

> There is however no conclusive data that high-fat low-carb diet ... contributes to CVD.

Have to be a little careful with this claim. Dietary saturated fat and cholesterol are problematic either way.

Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)

#359

Post by andor »

TuringNYC wrote: post #321

As a child of the 1980s, I feel so cheated that we were told to eat "5 servings of grains a day" pointing to bread and pasta -- when so many breads have added sugar and so much pasta has added sugar in the sauce. How did no one speak up? Would people ever have spoken up if we didnt have social media?

Bread with sugar in it is problematic, but that doesn't mean all bread is bad. That would be like saying that boiled potatos are as unhealthy as french fries. Or rolled oats vs. sugary industrial cereals. Whole grains are actually really healthy.

Bread and pasta are staples in France and Italy, and still they are much healthier than the US. In France, there's nothing wrong with a baguette from a bakery (or even from a supermarket). You'll also find industrially produced white bread if you really want to, but people aren't buying that as much, because of their food culture. On average, they have a better understanding of what's good and healthy.

One of the key issues is understanding food as products rather than produce. By outsourcing your food to large companies, you are giving them an opportunity for cutting costs by reducing the quality of the production process (e.g. reduced fermentation time of the dough) or the ingredients (e.g. adding sugar for better browning or to make the product more addictive). It's a result of the financialization of everything and the need for growth.

Rather than buying branded products and going to chain restaurants, buy from smaller places or cook your own food, from scratch.

Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)

#360

Post by devilsdata »

samename wrote: post #352
devilsdata wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It recommends eating more saturated fats from dairy and meat, both of which are very bad for CVD.

> In general, saturated fat consumption should not exceed 10% of total daily calories. Significantly limiting highly processed foods will help meet this goal. More high-quality research is needed to determine which types of dietary fats best support long-term health.

So that ends up being roughly 20 grams of saturated fat. I still consider that quite high, given that there is a strong correlation between saturated fat consumption and CVD.
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