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The Post-American Internet

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351–360 of 479 posts

Re: The Post-American Internet

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, by 2027, the Russian gas imports will stop altogether.

At which point new pipelines from Siberia to China and India will likely be finished (if they aren't already)

Why do you make such silly claims about imaginary pipelines? What purpose does it serve? There is one that goes to China, but it's been operating since 2019. Beyond that there are no pipelines being built, neither to China nor to India. One further pipeline to China is in discussion. And none will be built by 2027.

What point were you trying to make? You just assumed these work in progress pipelines were really nearly done already? Why didn't you do some research? Why assume they exist?

Re: The Post-American Internet

#352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an European I'd be rather tracked by an American (out Chinese, Russian, ...) company than by an EU or European regimes. Those companies are less likely to imprison or censor me than the regime who rules over Europe.

European citizens under US sanctions are being erased economically and socially within the EU. This is not to mention the systemic dismantling of the ICC at an individual level. The US has sanctioned six ICC judges this year, along with the court’s chief prosecutor and two deputy prosecutors. Prior to Trump, most of the ~15,000 individuals on the US sanctions list were members of Al-Qaeda, ISIS, the Mafia, or warlord…

The ICC sanctions are targeted (and only a couple of people), but they prove it can be applied to anyone, without merit and without due process. This is also why Europe needs to get rid of their dependence on Visa/Mastercard.

Also, if companies serve their customers, governments serve their civilians. If you want to argue bad faith, governments serve national interest, while companies serve themselves, and ultimately the jurisdiction they fall under. What do you think better aligns with my interests as a Dutch person: the interests of the Dutch government, or the interests of the United States government? Do you believe Google will best serve me as a Dutch person, or the US government?

All the arguments about 'European government bad' assume bad faith. They discount we have some of the most democratic, liberal governments in existence. Unlike countries such as Russia, China, and even the United States. But the only government (apart from a State such as California) which consistently protected civilian rights online is the EU, a couple of European countries, and some other ones in the free West (Canada, I am not sure about Japan and South Korea).

Re: The Post-American Internet

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only Apple has achieved it. Google is close. Debatable Android is a solid basis for a homegrown solution. We just never had the need to build one just yet. What Google and Apple built was convenient. But it's not as irreplaceable as some might think.

> Android is a solid basis for a homegrown solution. Except all proprietary drivers tying you to an ancient Linux kernel and preventing upgrades of the OS.

Are these proprietary drivers owned by American or Asian companies? There are many alternatives to Qualcomm nowadays

Re: The Post-American Internet

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an EU citizen I'm gladly giving Groenland up (even if it's not in the EU but belongs to Denmark which is, itself, in the EU) Nitpicky, but I guess ultimately it kind of/might matter: Greenland belongs to the Kingdom of Denmark (Danish Realm), not Denmark. Denmark (often called Denmark Proper) is a part of the Kingdom of Denmark, which also Faroe Islands belong to. Denmark is in Europe + EU, Kingdom of Denmark is…

> I think if Greenland was actually part of Denmark, it too would be part of EU, as I don't think you can selectively "unmark" specific territories in a country to not be in EU if the country itself is in EU. Yes, you can. Plenty of overseas territories span the complete gamut between autonomous regions outside the EU and overseas EU regions. Each one is a special case and has specific reasons why there are inside or…

Maybe I worded it poorly, or someone of us must misunderstand something. Are you saying there are regions that are outside of Europe-the-continent, but that are a part of EU, as it belongs to a country that is within EU too? Which one(s) are those, if so?

Re: The Post-American Internet

#355
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People also sometimes forget in this debate that the NSA is allowed and has a mandate to spy on non-US citizens and companies as they deem fit. Anything is allowed, including mass surveillance and hacking into systems. There are only restrictions when US citizens and companies are involved. European agencies probably have similar permissions but I don't think they have comparable capabilities and they also have and w…

Do you really think if the NSA is not allowed to do something, that they'll be held accountable? In 2026? I doubt it very much so. The USA sits on a lot of data from EU, and that is a bad situation. We also need to stop selling important companies such as Nexperia (to CN) and Zivver (to USA).

> Do you really think if the NSA is not allowed to do something, that they'll be held accountable? In 2026?

I know more than a few career lawyers who worked or currently work at NSA. It would blow your mind how rigidly they follow the laws and rules when it comes to US citizens.

Of course I don't expect you to believe me because "I said so" or anything like that. I can tell you definitively that when it comes to US citizens NSA is pretty neutered.

You may be thinking of the FBI...

Re: The Post-American Internet

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only Apple has achieved it. Google is close. Debatable Android is a solid basis for a homegrown solution. We just never had the need to build one just yet. What Google and Apple built was convenient. But it's not as irreplaceable as some might think.

> Android is a solid basis for a homegrown solution. Except all proprietary drivers tying you to an ancient Linux kernel and preventing upgrades of the OS.

That is not a problem of Android but of the hardware and funnily enough much of that is not produced in the US. I think we could cobble together a working phone in a short time and iterate upon that if it is necessary. Hardware has advanced sufficiently that we don't need the latest greatest to have an okay experience.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an EU citizen I'm gladly giving Groenland up (even if it's not in the EU but belongs to Denmark which is, itself, in the EU) Nitpicky, but I guess ultimately it kind of/might matter: Greenland belongs to the Kingdom of Denmark (Danish Realm), not Denmark. Denmark (often called Denmark Proper) is a part of the Kingdom of Denmark, which also Faroe Islands belong to. Denmark is in Europe + EU, Kingdom of Denmark is…

> Denmark is in Europe + EU, Kingdom of Denmark isn't in EU, but main part of it is indeed in Europe. Main part by population. By area, not so.

Was thinking more by "rule" than anything, since it is a monarchy after all. Folketing is located in Copenhagen.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#358
> A post-American Internet that is possible because Trump has mobilized new coalition partners to join the fight on our side.

I'm sorry, was the pre-trump era more pro-privacy or respectful of European's sovereignty? Is Snowden forgotten now? What about the State department cable leaks?

I didn't know people relied on governments being friendly for internet security so much.

> In politics, coalitions are everything.....That's where Trump came from: a coalition of billionaires, white nationalists, Christian bigots, authoritarians, conspiratorialists, imperialists, and self-described "libertarians" who've got such a scorching case of low-tax brain worms that they'd vote for Mussolini if he'd promise to lower their taxes by a nickel.

Ok, inflammatory wording aside, this isn't wrong, but the item over which a coalition is built is important. Building a coalition because of some group membership will always result in toxic cesspools in my opinion. But coalitions build around policy can be productive. quid-pro-quo coalitions of "I'll support you on X if you support me on Y" is also how political parties start and they result in terrible results for regular people.

A lot of anti-privacy law these days is also coming out of Europe (recent one: Chat control). I think current politics and trump are good recruitment tools, but they're not effective in terms of getting things done. For example, I disagree on just about everything with trumpers, but I guarantee you can build a coalition that includes many trumpers/MAGAts when it comes to stopping things like chat control. Point being, if you have a goal, stick to it. Build coalitions and policies around it. Thinking like this does more harm than good, now it is a social/cultural/national warfare. If I didn't know better, I would feel like I should oppose this person simply as a result of being an American myself.

How can you talk about coalitions and make a point about excluding people from your coalition. Your coalition in other words is built not around policy, or enacting change but around opposing groups of people. It's worded and crafted as if supporters of this cause must view it as a means to opposing other people, instead of making changes.

Even something as simple as "let's stop using Microsoft office" makes sense, we can then talk about funding something that can compete with it. But if you worded it as "let's oppose america" umm..ok, I guess people that don't really care about america either way probably don't have a place in your coalition?

That's one thing I'm disliking heavily, the nationalization of open source and privacy related things.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tolerance Paradox is not a "Tolerance Threshold" - it's a Paradox. You cannot be maximally liberal "up to Tolerance Paradox" - as soon as you are maximally liberal to any threshold, you are no longer liberal - hence the paradox.

> you are no longer liberal - hence the paradox. It seems you define liberal in a rigid way. What I tried to convey is that for any Tolerance to exist, it has room to tolerate anything except Anti-Tolerance, as part of its essence . Paradox isn't a contradiction ("you are no longer liberal"), it is something that might seem like a contradiction. But maybe we agree about that and my wording was confusing.

Let's leave "liberal" definition aside. I agree it's not well defined - I only used, because you said "maximally liberal".

A dilemma is a hard choice. A paradox is a principle that undermines itself when applied consistently. It doesn't "seem" like it - it is. In this case, if you stop intolerant ideas, you are no longer tolerant. That's quite simple, and Popper named it correctly as such. Now, if I put my 2c on it, the danger of this arbitrary "Tolerant except for the Anti-tolerant" idea is that, the tools you use to stop the Anti-Tolerant will one day turn around be used against the Tolerant as well, because these definitions are fluid.

When the example are "People from X are vermin" - yes this is anti-tolerant. But when "We should first create jobs for people born here"; is this anti-tolerant? It's a slippery slope where all ideas except the ruling one can be muted.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#360
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe… Finland? There is linux phones already, so perhaps Apple and Google f-king off might not be a bad thing.

The new Nokias are Android with Google services afaik. It may take a bit to de google them and take out all the non open source parts out of the OS.

That would be Jolla, a Finnish phone company that I think was founded by ex-Nokia employees.
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