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HPV vaccination reduces oncogenic HPV16/18 prevalence from 16% to <1% in Denmark

eurosurveillance.org

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Re: HPV vaccination reduces oncogenic HPV16/18 prevalence from 16% to <1% in Denmark

#351

Post by apparent »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #350
apparent wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, hope and faith are not effective strategies. Good luck to those who operate from this perspective, they will face disappointment, which is theirs to own. Hm, worked great for many people I know. I can imagine it would depend on a number of factors. But looking at your links, they don't seem especially relevant to the question of whether more people are having sex before marriage than before. They don't even m…

I understand that religiosity (faith and hope) is negatively correlated to intelligence, so I also understand faith driven mental models are an uphill climb to better health outcomes at scale. "It is what it is." As I mentioned, perhaps we'll have better luck next generation, when systems have improved in this regard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23921675/…

That's a pretty longwinded ad hominem you've got right there.

Forgive me for not digging into your links again...fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

You're entitled to your opinion, but when you go around spouting about faith not being a good strategy and then cite a bunch of unrelated articles, you've shown that you are yourself not very intelligent (or kind).

Re: HPV vaccination reduces oncogenic HPV16/18 prevalence from 16% to <1% in Denmark

#352

Post by CalRobert »

hagbard_c wrote: post #251
CalRobert wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved to the Netherlands a couple years ago and it seems pretty nice, curious what evidence there is trust has dropped. The government’s appalling failure wrt housing seems like a pretty valid reason for young people to distrust institutions tbh.

It has fallen due to many reasons, some of which are related to migration, many others with no or only tangential relations to it. You already mentioned the 'housing crisis' which is partly related to migration - where asylum seekers with residence permits ('statushouders' [1] in Dutch) get preferential treatment and now stand for 8% of the total, 20% of the housing for 'first time renters' and 78% of the 'first time…

Thanks for the sources.

If it helps, my mail slot still has a string…

Re: HPV vaccination reduces oncogenic HPV16/18 prevalence from 16% to <1% in Denmark

#353

Post by timr »

cassepipe wrote: post #266
timr wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While it won't clear an existing infection, it protects against different strains and reinfection (typically body removed HPV in 1-2 years). See: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38137661/ The study you've quoted here is not definitive evidence of the claim you're making, and that claim is...let's just say that it's controversial. Conventional wisdom is that you're unlikely to benefit from HPV vaccination unless you…

I understand why it wouldn't be recommended in policy but individually, provided you are rich enough to waste a hundred bucks, worse case is it's useless, best case you are 1-5% likely to spread a bad strain dangerous to yourself or to your partners, right ?

It's your body, and you can do whatever you want (assuming someone will consent to give it to you), but the worst case is that you have a bad reaction. It's rare, but not impossible, and things like GBS do happen -- though it must be emphasized that these vaccines are extremely safe by any reliable form of measurement [1].

But that's the general response to any question of this form. Medical treatments carry risk, however small. There is no free lunch.

> best case you are 1-5% likely to spread a bad strain dangerous to yourself or to your partners, right ?

I don't know where you're getting this number. I don't think anyone knows the actual answer to this question.

[1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4964727/

Re: HPV vaccination reduces oncogenic HPV16/18 prevalence from 16% to <1% in Denmark

#354

Post by 0ld »

hammock wrote: post #94
phkahler wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> HPVs are extremely common: 80% of men and 90% of women will have at least one strain in their lives. This statistic seems to be used by some people to avoid the vaccine - they figure they've already had it at some point. The biggest problem with that logic is that not all strains are as dangerous and they probably have not contracted 16 or 18 specifically. The other problem is there's still a good number of people…

What about the people who know they have 16 or 18? Should they still get it?

Yes. It would still protect you from the other strains and reduce risks of reinfection by the strains you already have, which is the main issue preventing your immune system from clearing the infection up by itself

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X2...

Re: HPV vaccination reduces oncogenic HPV16/18 prevalence from 16% to <1% in Denmark

#355

Post by hagbard_c »

CalRobert wrote: post #352
hagbard_c wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has fallen due to many reasons, some of which are related to migration, many others with no or only tangential relations to it. You already mentioned the 'housing crisis' which is partly related to migration - where asylum seekers with residence permits ('statushouders' [1] in Dutch) get preferential treatment and now stand for 8% of the total, 20% of the housing for 'first time renters' and 78% of the 'first time…

Thanks for the sources. If it helps, my mail slot still has a string…

If there were a string in the mail slot in the house where I grew up it would not end well, unfortunately. Even the mail slot itself is suspect since these have been used by burglars to open unlocked doors (metal wire through the slot, easy), by vandals to throw in fireworks (one house burned down that way), by creeps to pee through it (another house in the same area), by other vandals to put a garden hose in to flood the hallway just for kicks, etc.

This was in Amstelveen, to the south of Amsterdam. Where do you live?

Re: HPV vaccination reduces oncogenic HPV16/18 prevalence from 16% to <1% in Denmark

#356

Post by 0_____0 »

medler wrote: post #269
0_____0 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My GP just offered it during my physical along with the flu and COVID booster. I declined the COVID booster since I had just gotten a mild case a couple months back. Got two shots in the left arm, was sore for a day and that was that.

Gardasil is usually a three-shot series. You may want to go back and get those followup shots

I had an incomplete series when I was younger, and told the GP that. I forget how they scheduled the follow-up shots but I trust my care team.

Re: HPV vaccination reduces oncogenic HPV16/18 prevalence from 16% to <1% in Denmark

#357

Post by toomuchtodo »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #348
apparent wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Try to do better Pretty sure this line never convinced anyone of anything. We all want to do "better" but have different definitions of what that constitutes. > If you don’t think your kids are going to have sex when they’re older, or think you can control it, you are lying to yourself. I don't think anyone thinks this. Some people do hope and expect their children not to have sex outside of a monogamous marriage.…

Well, hope and faith are not effective strategies. Good luck to those who operate from this perspective, they will face disappointment, which is theirs to own. Monogamous marriage is a shrinking minority of potential outcomes [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6], and ~40% of first marriages end in divorce [7] (rates are higher for second and third marriages). The kids of these people get a chance to do better when they become adu…

Additional citation on generational value transmission:

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xr9r!,f_auto,q_auto:...

from https://www.ggd.world/p/what-do-parents-want which was sourced from https://thezvi.substack.com/p/fertility-roundup-5-causation

Re: HPV vaccination reduces oncogenic HPV16/18 prevalence from 16% to <1% in Denmark

#358

Post by LorenPechtel »

electriclove wrote: post #304
LorenPechtel wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And herein lies the problem--you are trying to decree their sexuality. Not your choice.

Are you a parent? We might just be raised differently. And I can accept that you might raise your kids differently.

A parent has a duty to do the best job of raising their child that they can.

Trying to force abstinence does not work and leads to more problems down the road.

Re: HPV vaccination reduces oncogenic HPV16/18 prevalence from 16% to <1% in Denmark

#359

Post by LorenPechtel »

apparent wrote: post #347
toomuchtodo wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a parent who vaccinated my daughter at 9 for HPV, and my son will be vaccinated as soon as he’s old enough, without delay or hesitation. It is my opinion you are doing a disservice to your children with a suboptimal mental model, potentially driven by emotion instead of data. Your children will have sexual contact with another human eventually as they grow into adults, and there is very low risk with an HPV vacc…

> Try to do better Pretty sure this line never convinced anyone of anything. We all want to do "better" but have different definitions of what that constitutes. > If you don’t think your kids are going to have sex when they’re older, or think you can control it, you are lying to yourself. I don't think anyone thinks this. Some people do hope and expect their children not to have sex outside of a monogamous marriage.…

"Sending a message" is generally a cover term for evil.

And there is no issue of having faith in them--you are trying to make a decision you have no right to make. You're a parent, not a slavemaster.

The real world data is that the "good" girls are more likely to get pregnant, more likely to get STDs. And more likely to end up in bad marriages.

And lets add another data point. I used to have a bunch of coworkers from a very conservative background. An unmarried person would not be able to buy a condom in town type conservative. Over the course of many years I became aware of many marriages--and every single marriage was either arranged or due to pregnancy. Every single one. Remember, one of the definitions of insanity is keeping trying the same thing and expecting a different outcome.

Re: HPV vaccination reduces oncogenic HPV16/18 prevalence from 16% to <1% in Denmark

#360

Post by LorenPechtel »

apparent wrote: post #349
toomuchtodo wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, hope and faith are not effective strategies. Good luck to those who operate from this perspective, they will face disappointment, which is theirs to own. Monogamous marriage is a shrinking minority of potential outcomes [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6], and ~40% of first marriages end in divorce [7] (rates are higher for second and third marriages). The kids of these people get a chance to do better when they become adu…

> Well, hope and faith are not effective strategies. Good luck to those who operate from this perspective, they will face disappointment, which is theirs to own. Hm, worked great for many people I know. I can imagine it would depend on a number of factors. But looking at your links, they don't seem especially relevant to the question of whether more people are having sex before marriage than before. They don't even m…

"Faith" is fundamentally belief without knowledge. Thus you by definition have no reason to rely on it. (Although the word also gets used in situations where there is a track record to rely on but no specific evidence in the particular case.)

And you're using the wrong yardstick. What you should be looking at is the number of adverse events. STDs. Unintended pregnancies.

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