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Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

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Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#351

Post by Manuel_D »

lenkite wrote: post #325
Manuel_D wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There was a big case with Apple and other Silicon Valley corporations were found to have colluded to not hire employees working for any of the other companies. And there's some factories in Asia that confiscate foreign worker's passports. Nobody is claiming that workers' ability to move jobs is never compromised by employees. The question is, is there any evidence to back up that Id employees are in this situation…

> the best people can come up with is point to a decades old no-poaching agreement Why shouldn't Id employees be smart and protect themselves in a job market currently going bad for IT ? Regarding the US in general, wage-fixing is still pretty common https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/us-nuclear-plant-op... "In July 2025, a class action lawsuit was filed against Constellation Energy, Duke Energy, Pacific Gas &…

Is there any evidence that wage fixing is happening at Id?

Again, bosses kidnapping employees and holding them by force is extensively documented. But posting a bunch of stories to that effect doesn't matter for the topic at hand unless one of those is happening at Id.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#352

Post by Manuel_D »

lenkite wrote: post #326
Manuel_D wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This collusion affected 8 companies, and stopped over a decade and a half ago. Is there any evidence that Id employees are being subject to this kind of no poach agreement?

"Is there any evidence that Id employees are being subject to this kind of no poach agreement?" Why should there be evidence ? They have a right to be pro-active and protect themselves from the C-suite.

Because people replied to my statement that Id employees are free to accept competing jobs elsewhere claiming that that employees at Id don't have that ability. It sure looks like this claim is baseless.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#354

Post by spopejoy »

Pet_Ant wrote: post #254
desmoulins wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true, but there's still the problem of how things are distributed within the collective groups. When the labor market gets competitive, you start to see long probationary periods, two-tier pay and benefit scales, hiring people on as casuals instead of permanent members, and other bargaining concessions that end up favoring some union members over others. I know some unions over the last few years have managed…

Unpopular opinion but I'm okay with treating union members better than non. It's good to know that once you make it you are safe. It's okay to grind and give 110% on the come-up. Unsustainable drive, passion, fire. But there has got to be a point where you can ease off to giving 90%, even 85%. Jobs are a part of society, and the society needs to create structures that make room for people to pull back and focus on ot…

Not just unpopular, undesirable and unworkable. There's a reason unions have long opposed two-tier as a cynical divide-and-conquer management strategy.

Indeed what are you actually "okay with" here? Being on the upper tier, due to a strategy that explicitly wants to chip away at said tier until it's gone? When it goes away will that also be "okay"?

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#355

Post by sam345 »

tomlockwood wrote: post #145

Congrats to them! Unions are the reason we have (had) an 8 hour day.

And all the major American legacy car companies filing bankruptcy through the years and becoming completely uncompetitive. Welcome to your soon do you come greedy unionion reps That will ensure high performers will leave for better pastures and low to average performers will stay and benefit from collective bargaining,. Unions always increase friction and company politics and stunts growth. Growth is what is key to success of any company and its workers.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#356

Post by AnthonyMouse »

repstosb wrote: post #338
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> was it the unions or executives that decided to offshore manufacturing? Neither. It was consumers, who prefer lower prices. > why are executives now (successfully) lobbying for protectionism against Chinese manufacturers? Because they were fools who thought they could offshore the factory work but not the management work. > If chinese goods could be ported as easily and cheaply into America and American labor was p…

>> was it the unions or executives that decided to offshore manufacturing? >Neither. It was consumers, who prefer lower prices. Right, because every executive who pursued offshore manufacturing was thinking, "gosh, how can I deliver even lower prices and better value to my customers?", and not "OK, we've shown the market will pay $X for product Y, how can I cut my costs and free up more money for bonuses and cocaine?…

> Right, because every executive who pursued offshore manufacturing was thinking, "gosh, how can I deliver even lower prices and better value to my customers?", and not "OK, we've shown the market will pay $X for product Y, how can I cut my costs and free up more money for bonuses and cocaine?"

Suppose it used to cost you $1 to make something in the US that you had been selling for $1.50. The cost of domestic real estate and other things goes up, so now to make it in the US it costs you $1.60. If you sell for $1.50 you're losing money and to have your previous gross margin percentage you'd have to sell for $2.40. Meanwhile it still costs $1 to make it in China and one of your competitors is doing that and still selling it for $1.50.

Your options are a) don't raise prices, lose $0.10/unit and go out of business, b) raise prices, lose all of your sales to the company who still charges the old price and go out of business, or c) offshore manufacturing.

The only way out of this is to get the domestic costs back down, which is a matter of changing the government policy over zoning rules etc.

> Graphs of price indices (aside from a few sectors such as electronics where it was the core technology that improved, not labor efficiency) and wages over the last 50 years clearly show that the bulk of any offshoring savings were not passed along to consumers or front-line workers.

Are these graphs being adjusted for the increasing cost of things like domestic real estate having to be incorporated into the prices of everything? Even if you make it in another country you still have to pay for a domestic warehouse or retail store.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#357

Post by salawat »

Manuel_D wrote: post #204
salawat wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't need it to justify unionizing. Unionizing is a right, and it was previously not exercised because there was no evidence of the will of the market to defraud or conspire against workers . It is now written plain for all to see that indeed, these types of arrangements are kept in board members back pockets. It is not their job to protect a companies interest in renumeration execs and shareholders. It is their j…

I'm not disputing that employees have right to try and form a union. I'm asking people who are insisting that Id employees are not free to accept competing offers to back up those claims with evidence.

And I'm telling you that what you're asking for doesn't mean a lick. Someone already pissed in the pool. Once you know it's been done, you can't uncrack that egg.

Plan on capabilities. Not "what you feel like they might draw the lines". Odds are, your feelings are in error, and they are capable of much worse. And if they're actually decent people, to everyone, all is good. If all they want is to juice the most out of the most gullible/naive, that's what the union is for.

We cannot have nice things.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#358

Post by nickthegreek »

mlrtime wrote: post #309
nickthegreek wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay is a but a single way in which an employer can attempt to unfairly exploit you. The rest tends to hide behind culture and opportunity . Unpaid overtime framed as dedication, scope creep framed as growth, on-call expectations framed as ownership, understaffing framed as efficiency. You might find these game developers being abused by a few or all of these examples. Exploitive companies can borrow against your prid…

Do you think Salaried software devs should have overtime? Even if paid well (multiples of median salaries across industries).

I’d entrain notions past certain thresholds (60+ hr weeks for months on end seems excessive for instance) should come with certain protections/minimum extras of some sort. A few guardrails, even if only to protection extremes seems pragmatic and not too controversial imo.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#359

Post by zappb »

tehjoker wrote: post #82
palmotea wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your bosses are political, they shape politics to mold the environment around you. Unions form the bedrock of worker power, and workers should advocate for a more democratic society against the oligarchs. We are some of the best positioned in society to do so because we control the means of production. I should clarify: I totally agree with being "political" in that area. The stuff I'm thinking about are things lik…

Here's what I'll say. Every union is a democracy and has to decide what is right for it, but unions are the fighting organizations of the working class and we are the rightful rulers of this society by virtue of actually making it run and being the literal majority in a classic liberal sense. U.S. and western unions generally have been very conservative and "business unions" since the anti-communist counterattacks af…

And now your union discriminates against Jews and Israelis. Great job.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#360

Post by xg15 »

Izkata wrote: post #343
overfeed wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're saying you forgot about the range 1:1 to 0:1. Color me intrigued! Tell me more about these slave-CEOs serving at the beck and call of empowered workers. I didn't merely forget about the 1:1 to 0:1 range, it's an Outside-Context scenario. I confess I have never encountered - or thought about - organizations with inverted hierarchies. Do you have any specific example of such a thing?

When unions gain too much power and the company can no longer respond effectively to market forces (particularly with hiring/firing), leading to the collective ruin they were talking about.

Someone read their Ayn Rand...
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