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UK House of Lords attempting to ban use of VPNs by anyone under 16

alecmuffett.com

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Re: UK House of Lords attempting to ban use of VPNs by anyone under 16

#351

Post by Ferret7446 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #46
int32_64 wrote: post #26

It's so organic and grass roots and good for democracy™ that every single Western country suddenly decided that eliminating privacy online in lockstep was the top priority despite none of the ruling parties running on it as a platform or with any meaningful referendums from the voting public. But to what end?

>It's so organic and grass roots It is though. This is one of the few surveillance issues actually driven by grassroots organisations like ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Shout ) in particular when it comes to adult content who have been at this globally for well over a decade. There's no shadowy cabal trying to age-restrict porn or social media, this is more like a modern day Carrie Nation. Puritanism alw…

Oh hey, that's the group that got payment processors to ban lots of legal content off of many platforms including Steam, all the while denying everything when the public outrage turned against them. Nothing speaks grassroots more than hiding when everyone hates what you're doing.

Re: UK House of Lords attempting to ban use of VPNs by anyone under 16

#352

Post by beeflet »

inference-god wrote: post #334
beeflet wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support transparency for institutions and privacy for individuals. Not the other way around.

What about when a group of individuals forms an institution that's self serving and harmful to other citizens, and they're able to do a lot of this under the guise of "privacy"?

All operations as a public institution should be transparent. We fund them through taxes, we have a right to know what is going on.

I don't know what you are getting at with "self serving and harmful to other citizens"? Like a private institution? a company? Of course private companies are self-serving. All of them could be described as perpetrating some subjective and nebulous "harm". There are already transparency requirements for businesses, and they are subject to warrants. To the extent that they are public institutions (monopolies, publicity-traded companies), there are increasing demands for transparency and vice-versa.

Individuals have a right to privacy and protection from undue search, regardless of scare quotes employed, unless they are living on a prison island such britan.

Re: UK House of Lords attempting to ban use of VPNs by anyone under 16

#353

Post by CGamesPlay »

an0malous wrote: post #347
azalemeth wrote: post #54

It's also worth stating that the worst part of that proposed amendment [1] isn't even necessarily the VPN ban, it's the next clause, on page 20: "The “CSAM requirement” is that any relevant device supplied for use in the UK must have installed tamper-proof system software which is highly effective at preventing the recording, transmitting (by any means, including livestreaming) and viewing of CSAM using that device."…

Huh? How is this Apple’s fault?

Presumably, because they built the first client-side CSAM scanning technology. Random article about it: https://educatedguesswork.org/posts/apple-csam-intro/

Re: UK House of Lords attempting to ban use of VPNs by anyone under 16

#354

Post by matheusmoreira »

bamboozled wrote: post #326
matheusmoreira wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computers are too powerful, too subversive for us citizens to have access to. Give citizens computers and they can copy at will, making a mockery out of things like copyright, they'd wipe out entire sectors of the economy if left unchecked. Give citizens computers and they will have cryptography which can defeat police, judges, governments, spies, militaries. They cannot tolerate it. They will eventually lock everyth…

The other side of this coin is that, disgusting horrific pedophiles, terrorists and drug smugglers also have access to this stuff too. I'm not in support of this bill, I'm just saying whenever I read these arguments, it's almost like you're entirely discounting the challenge the very tech your praising incurs for law enforcement and society. For me the paradox is simple, one the one hand people want everything to be…

There is no paradox. The optimal amount of crime is non-zero. You must tolerate some crime in order to keep your humanity and dignity. Orwellian dystopias with omniscient surveillance can reduce crime to zero but you wouldn't want to live in one.

https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/optimal-amount-of-fra...

This is just something people need to accept no matter how angry they get about it. If they don't, they will be manipulated through their fears into trading away their freedom for a false sense of security.

Re: UK House of Lords attempting to ban use of VPNs by anyone under 16

#355

Post by digdugdirk »

autoexec wrote: post #209
matheusmoreira wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An illegitimate underground scene running on life support, using old unlocked computers which are a finite resource they will eventually run out of. Utterly depressing... We used to be free... If this passes, the only strategic move available is to somehow develop the ability to make our own computer processors in our garages. Billion dollar fabs are single points of failure and they will be exploited, subverted, reg…

> If this passes, the only strategic move available is to somehow develop the ability to make our own computer processors in our garages. How feasible is this really? I'd feel a lot better if it were possible to produce chips free from backdoors even if the resulting CPUs weren't even as fast as an old Pentium III, but my guess is that any effort to do this at scale will be quickly shutdown by the government

It's not. And any effort to do this at scale would be quickly shut down by physics and economics, not the government. Modern computing technology is a wildly complex supply chain, with extremely specialized manufacturing equipment and facilities. Billion dollar fabs are worth billions of dollars for a reason, and it's not for the real estate or the views.

Trying to determine the best "diy chip" sounds like a fun project and an admirable goal, but if you actually wanted something useful I'd wager you'd be better off buying esp32's in bulk so you'd have all the spares you might need.

Re: UK House of Lords attempting to ban use of VPNs by anyone under 16

#356

Post by admash »

bamboozled wrote: post #328
int32_64 wrote: post #26

It's so organic and grass roots and good for democracy™ that every single Western country suddenly decided that eliminating privacy online in lockstep was the top priority despite none of the ruling parties running on it as a platform or with any meaningful referendums from the voting public. But to what end?

On the other hand, what's your solution for completely anonymous people to be infiltrating western democracies information space and spreading propaganda lies and falsehoods. I'm 100% not in favor of this level of authoritarianism, i'm just honestly curios what your solution is? Just let it continue? Let your children be subjected to misinformation about the holocaust etc? Let children be exploited and images of them…

The alternative is to refuse to delegate the formation and development of the character of our children and culture to automated systems and regulatory policies. Engage with your children on topics that matter. Discuss the pros and cons of various viewpoints and political platforms with your friends and neighbors, colleagues and fellow bus-riders. We, ourselves, are the psychosocial immune system for society, and if we construct an environment in which we can not be exposed harmful concepts, then we will never learn how to respond and combat it when we inevitably are exposed to it.

This is not to say that we should not actively work to prevent criminal acts, but that trying to establish a world in which such acts are impossible will cripple society in ways which will leave us vulnerable to much larger and more systemic abuses. Benjamin Franklin’s statement rings as true as ever, if in a rather updated context: “ They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

Re: UK House of Lords attempting to ban use of VPNs by anyone under 16

#357

Post by HWR_14 »

admash wrote: post #356
bamboozled wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, what's your solution for completely anonymous people to be infiltrating western democracies information space and spreading propaganda lies and falsehoods. I'm 100% not in favor of this level of authoritarianism, i'm just honestly curios what your solution is? Just let it continue? Let your children be subjected to misinformation about the holocaust etc? Let children be exploited and images of them…

The alternative is to refuse to delegate the formation and development of the character of our children and culture to automated systems and regulatory policies. Engage with your children on topics that matter. Discuss the pros and cons of various viewpoints and political platforms with your friends and neighbors, colleagues and fellow bus-riders. We, ourselves, are the psychosocial immune system for society, and if…

> Engage with your children on topics that matter.

And what do we do for the children who have parents who fail them. How do we even detect it in time to help those children?

Re: UK House of Lords attempting to ban use of VPNs by anyone under 16

#358

Post by pca006132 »

bamboozled wrote: post #326
matheusmoreira wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computers are too powerful, too subversive for us citizens to have access to. Give citizens computers and they can copy at will, making a mockery out of things like copyright, they'd wipe out entire sectors of the economy if left unchecked. Give citizens computers and they will have cryptography which can defeat police, judges, governments, spies, militaries. They cannot tolerate it. They will eventually lock everyth…

The other side of this coin is that, disgusting horrific pedophiles, terrorists and drug smugglers also have access to this stuff too. I'm not in support of this bill, I'm just saying whenever I read these arguments, it's almost like you're entirely discounting the challenge the very tech your praising incurs for law enforcement and society. For me the paradox is simple, one the one hand people want everything to be…

Authorities cannot tap into your brain, cannot tap into physical face-to-face conversations, and people can plan out crimes using these means. It is not like there is no way to hide stuff before the born of modern cryptography.

And who want everything to be open and transparent? I am not aware of anyone who wants this.

Re: UK House of Lords attempting to ban use of VPNs by anyone under 16

#359

Post by pca006132 »

inference-god wrote: post #334
beeflet wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support transparency for institutions and privacy for individuals. Not the other way around.

What about when a group of individuals forms an institution that's self serving and harmful to other citizens, and they're able to do a lot of this under the guise of "privacy"?

If what they did is never revealed to someone else, what is the problem here? It is not like we have no way to hide stuff without cryptography, and people are not advocating for police to search every apartment once in a while to look for illegal stuff.
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