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Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

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Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#351

Post by jama211 »

dmos62 wrote: post #204
arianvanp wrote: post #194

I studied at Utrecht University and all the programming classes in the Bachelor were C#, Visual Studio, XNA, DirectX. Windows. Database class i had to learn in Proprietary Microsoft tools too. All Microsoft stuff. Sure nobody would complain if you did stuff on Linux but all the support by TAs and teachers was on Microsoft platforms only.. The Master was much better but the Bachelor basically was grooming people to be…

And same goes for less technical disciplines too. Adobe, Autodesk, Archicad, etc. It's pretty bad software: expensive, very buggy, poor extensibility, poorly maintained, closed-source, rapid tech debt accumulation requires upgrading your pc every few years. If only a minor percentage of organizations licensing it would instead spend that budget financing an open source project, that would have a very positive effect…

I agree with your point generally, but wouldn’t call adobe software buggy or poorly maintained. That’s a bit of a stretch.

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#352

Post by TulliusCicero »

trinix912 wrote: post #147
TulliusCicero wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people talk about the EU, they don't necessarily mean the EU proper, just like many "US" problems are more at the state or local level. People often mean "within the EU", including national regulations that may be widespread.

Then they should say that, not bash on the EU as a whole.

And yet, people will still say that the US has shit public transit, even if NYC is mostly fine.

If you expect generalizations to be perfect all the time, you'll be persistently disappointed, and probably a hypocrite to boot.

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#353

Post by [deleted] »

mistrial9 wrote: post #133
TulliusCicero wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true, but it's also a fixable problem. The issue I've seen is that there isn't really the political will to fix it. Europeans broadly seem uncomfortable giving up national sovereignty when it comes to digital issues (including those that impact scaling businesses), so they implicitly choose the status quo that makes it hard for software/internet businesses to succeed. Literally in this thread you can see Euro…

on the other hand, the USA got mass surveillance normalized, and an entire generation with serious emotional disturbances due to social media.. Many indicators of required cell phone IDs and airport biometrics still on the way. Is that a "win" in the long term?

[deleted]

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#354

Post by bdangubic »

nxor wrote: post #327
mistrial9 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

on the other hand, the USA got mass surveillance normalized, and an entire generation with serious emotional disturbances due to social media.. Many indicators of required cell phone IDs and airport biometrics still on the way. Is that a "win" in the long term?

Europeans also use social media.

europe uses American social media, it doesn’t have its own so it doesn’t count :)

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#355

Post by okillbite »

I think a better question is if there is an operating framework that would remove Microsoft's ability to sanction individuals on the whim of the current US administration in lieu of the appropriate EU institutions.

Microsoft's partnership/JV with 21Vianet in China shows that it can be done (with limitations on features) and this is probably the right direction to go.

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#356

Post by mensetmanusman »

dmos62 wrote: post #301
tokioyoyo wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if students learn some open-source software that doesn’t get used in private industry, will they be able to land a job that’s asking Autodesk et al. knowledge as a requirement?

Look at Blender. No reason why that success can't be repeated.

Yes there is, blender has a unique win/win/win that justifies funding by these major software organizations.

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#357

Post by mcv »

toast0 wrote: post #334
another_twist wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dont know why employers do this. Why pay for shitty tools your employees hate ?

The top of the stack loves Outlook/Exchange. They want that calendar experience and that's what they're going to get.

That's the thing. The decision makers are not programmers who care about good dev tooling, but executives who care about good agenda management. So Microsoft's agenda management is great, and their dev tooling sucks.

It really feels like ADO was just quickly patched together to they can offer it as part of a complete package.

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#358

Post by lpcvoid »

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #279
lpcvoid wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well written. I hope one day the united states of europe is a real political entity, burying the stupidity that is fragmented national interests.

> Well written. I hope one day the united states of Europe is a real political entity, burying the stupidity that is fragmented national interests. And I personally hope it won't. Seeing how things are going, I have no interest for my country to become a small province of the EU to be managed by some bureaucrats in Brussels who have never set foot in it. Sharing intel and and resources why not? Becoming a vassal stat…

The world is going back to zones of influence, and little fish will be eaten by big fishes. I'd rather that the big fish be the EU than Russia, even if it means giving up some national rights.

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#359

Post by rdm_blackhole »

lpcvoid wrote: post #358
rdm_blackhole wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well written. I hope one day the united states of Europe is a real political entity, burying the stupidity that is fragmented national interests. And I personally hope it won't. Seeing how things are going, I have no interest for my country to become a small province of the EU to be managed by some bureaucrats in Brussels who have never set foot in it. Sharing intel and and resources why not? Becoming a vassal stat…

The world is going back to zones of influence, and little fish will be eaten by big fishes. I'd rather that the big fish be the EU than Russia, even if it means giving up some national rights.

> The world is going back to zones of influence, and little fish will be eaten by big fishes

That has always been the case. I don't see how that would justify giving up our independence to become a province of a super state.

Secondly, using Russia a bogeyman to justify giving up our national rights is not a really convincing argument.

Russia hasn't been able to conquer a third of Ukraine in the last 3 years and it's economy is in shambles, yet we are supposed to believe that only a European super state can save us from it? That makes no sense.

But each to their own, those who want to give up their national rights, identities and shared cultural heritage should go ahead and integrate this super state and those who do not should be able to stay out of it.

I guess fundamentally we have a different view of what Europe should be.

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#360

Post by baranul »

dmos62 wrote: post #204
arianvanp wrote: post #194

I studied at Utrecht University and all the programming classes in the Bachelor were C#, Visual Studio, XNA, DirectX. Windows. Database class i had to learn in Proprietary Microsoft tools too. All Microsoft stuff. Sure nobody would complain if you did stuff on Linux but all the support by TAs and teachers was on Microsoft platforms only.. The Master was much better but the Bachelor basically was grooming people to be…

And same goes for less technical disciplines too. Adobe, Autodesk, Archicad, etc. It's pretty bad software: expensive, very buggy, poor extensibility, poorly maintained, closed-source, rapid tech debt accumulation requires upgrading your pc every few years. If only a minor percentage of organizations licensing it would instead spend that budget financing an open source project, that would have a very positive effect…

Good points. Funding the open-source equivalents, even at a fraction of what they are spending on close-source, would have circumvented the problem of being "trapped" in the first place. Even more, the universities would be able to contribute code to the projects, if they wanted to.

It was always pretty obvious what Microsoft wanted and was trying to do. Now trying to escape, will be painful, but that's the price they will have to endure if they want freedom and data sovereignty.

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