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Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

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Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#351
post #305

This is a sympton of something worse. The bigger issue: Roblox isn’t the real problem, it’s filling the gap left by the disappearance of unstructured, unsupervised play in the physical world. Kids used to build worlds, take risks, and form friendships outdoors. Now many have no safe places to roam, no peers outside scheduled activities, and no cultural permission to be on their own. So they do all that in Roblox inst…

Kids do not want to go outside. Even if parents want it and push for it, youtube, whatsapp, roblox, fortnite, whatever they have from steam is much more fun.

To be fair, we've sort f made outside really, really shitty.

Stroads and parking lots galore ain't all that appealing (or safe) to play in.

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tbh making Roblox illegal feels like the same moral panic that our parents had around metal music, hip-hop, and arcades. My kid plays Roblox, I prevent her from talking to others, and I police the Robux purchases. It really is a fun platform. The problem is for parents that aren't technical, or are negligent and don't know how to police it.

It goes beyond that though. There are games and in-game content that aren't being reviewed. There are claims of player skins where the characters are wearing a t-shirt with an actual photo of Charlie Kirk's death (the shot to the neck). Anyone can make a Roblox game and publish it, and there doesn't seem to be a lot of moderations or verification going on. And you don't need to "talk", voice or text. You can emote, t…

> And you don't need to "talk", voice or text. You can emote, type on signs, and communicate in other ways

I had blocked chat on my kid's account and thought I was ok. Then I see her playing one game and ask her what she's doing. She says she's updating her character status (description etc) to talk to other players.

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#353
post #340
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why this is getting downvoted. As another response mentioned, we wouldn't tolerate this in any other industry. If a restaurant served food that harmed people we wouldn't say, "it's on the parents." I don't get why so many folks are willing to say that with harms caused by tech companies. Scale is no excuse either, "at our scale we just can't handle all the content." If anything it makes the problem…

This sounds good as a sound bite. But barely any investigation cracks it. We don't police companies much because we have entire divisions of law enforcement who are supposed to be doing that job. 1. If a restaurant serves food that harmed people the health department is the avenue used to investigate and punish. 2. If a game company enables endangering children the FBI is the one responsible for investigating it. etc…

> I don't understand why people love the nanny state so much. We can't continue to make companies be the police, the stewards of truth, and justice. They demonstrated just recently, during COVID, that this was an absolute disaster. Over the last 30 years we have watched freedom erode because the average American wants to foist all responsibility onto someone else.

I think there is a couple of things at play:

First, negativity bias. I think it's pretty clear that as a society we're not that interested in harm reduction, just biased towards harm reduction of things that violate our value system. So when things happen that do violate our norms, they're presented outside of the background noise. For example, very few people feel compelled to come in and share personal anecdotes of how they lost relatives to a car accident when the topic at hand is vehicles in america. Yet they're the second leading cause of death from unintentional injuries.

Second, these things affect people across the social stratification index. People of privilege experience it. I claim that we also as a society are not very concerned with protecting vulnerable populations. The top 10% of the nations families hold 60% of the wealth, while 1 in 10 Americans live in poverty. We consistently rank lower in social welfare compared to other developed nations. So, further supporting the first point, it's even more outlandish when these things happen to people who are not accustomed to having bad things happen.

Finally, technology consistently outpaces our ability to reason about and structure our society as a whole. It's easier to attempt blanket and ham fisted reactions to these bad things we see without understand the wider implications.

To a lot of people, the easiest and most obvious choice is Authoritarianism, because in there mind there's no other way to stop the pain.

Plus, it's difficult to talk about these things without being callous. "Bad things happened to me, so you should simply give up your right to privacy so we can prevent it from happening further." At face value is difficult to take seriously, but when it involves that cross section of the privileged vulnerable class, it's difficult to have a reasonable argument without being steamrolled.

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#354
post #207

Putting aside my personal concerns and frustrations with the state of parental controls (it’s hell), what does the author propose here? By his own admission the controls which companies have been pressured to implement thus far are incomplete / can be bypassed. There is of course only one, complete solution that comes to mind - universal digital ID for all humans on the internet - which is a different kind of nightma…

One possibility: hold executives, product managers, and engineers personally criminally liable for building a system that puts inappropriate material in front of children or connects them with predators, and let them figure out how they'd like to avoid that liability. Could be through building something more robust (e.g. only allowing kids to play with pre-whitelisted friends, not any anonymous user), or hiring a leg…

This !! 100% Match the relation between power/control with reliability/consequences, instead of damning us all to ID for every Internet use (and that is coming) and so immensely risk that we get access to critical information and/or face increasing censorship. That would require a change of perception, but it would solve so many problems, from the one discussed here with Roblox as an example to food contaminated with whatever to appliances quality.

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#355
The real problem is that games like roblox are popular at all. The exploitation done by this proprietary software platform dwarfs any issues caused by users.

Mass abuse of hundreds of millions for profit >>>> minor abuse for sadistic or sexual gratification. It's a true shame that only complaints of the latter have been normalized, but for entirely the wrong reasons punishing "evildoers", rather than preventing harm. When social morals are so warped society becomes unable to protect children which can only hasten the collapse of society.

Punitive justice only seems to work, mainly it relies on people fearing that their harmful actions will be punished, if people believe their actions aren't harmful they will do them and punitive justices' appearance of success disappears.

Need I remind you that the game wouldn't exist without exploiting unpaid child labor? I feel I must, because the only comment of 332 pointing it out has low opacity. Is it any wonder that a software platform designed around exploiting children has users engaging in child exploitation?

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#356

This is a sympton of something worse. The bigger issue: Roblox isn’t the real problem, it’s filling the gap left by the disappearance of unstructured, unsupervised play in the physical world. Kids used to build worlds, take risks, and form friendships outdoors. Now many have no safe places to roam, no peers outside scheduled activities, and no cultural permission to be on their own. So they do all that in Roblox inst…

Sorry for being blunt, isn't this mostly an US phenomen?

Around most European countries kids are pretty much still playing outside as they feel like it, without having some neighbour call the police due to bad parenting or whatever it happens to be.

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#357
post #158

It's interesting to me to think about a possible system where people in say roblox can only chat with each other by exchanging physical keys somehow. This way, they would be able to chat with their peers from school etc., without the danger or need for as much supervision. I don't necessarily think this is technologically feasible or something that would be accepted, but I think it's an interesting idea.

Nintendo kind of tried that with "friend codes" but they were just annoying and spread online anyway, which is kind of fair since today it's not uncommon for people to be friends with people in distant places and the internet should allow us to be able to connect and play with each other no matter where we are. The original solution to just playing with local friends was LAN parties, but private servers were great to…

Fwiw this is why I was thinking of a hardware solution, with some sort of hardware code shared via Bluetooth you could make it so it can't be shared online.

It doesn't even have to be super cryptographically secured against someone getting their own code off of it, since that's probably beyond most children.

You would want to make sure that people can't just sniff them or something though.

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#358
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that this still happened despite my many roadblocks and safe-guards I put in place really shocked me to the core. Not to mention the whole "am I terrible parent" question which naturally arises out of all this I don't want to kick you when you're down, but you tried a technical solution on a human problem.

I don't think that's necessarily accurate. Can you elaborate on what a "human" solution would be in your mind? For us, it was a combination of technical, educational, and traditional parenting as well as some therapy for other behavioral issues exhibited in school. We had after-school classes and sports. We played board games as a family. From our perspective, we were doing things correctly in both the technical and…

It could of course be simply down to the fact that all children are different, but what worked for us is honesty and the closeness that brought.

I've see parents "talk" with their children, where it seemed more like they were talking _at_ them. I could see in the kids face he was putting on a show of listening (and pretending to go along with it), because that was the fastest track to going back to doing whatever he liked when they weren't watching.

Where it worked though, was getting closer to my children by admitting where I was at and where I was coming from. When they feel like you're really connecting with them.

I'm sure my kids still get up to much I'll (hopefully) never hear about, but that's normal. As long as the big overarching stuff is understood, I'll take that as a win.

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#360
post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this feels wrong to me. when i watch my 7yo cousin play, he is talking to his friends in a virtual space and playing volleyball or racing cars or playing golf or doing a fashion show. the cosmetics are stupid, but thats not the main thrust. the real world can't compete because its expensive and devoid of children.

> and devoid of children YES! This is a big piece of it. Fewer kids + more of them wanting to be inside / parents wanting them to be inside = less kids to play with = even less likelihood of them wanting to play outside. This is like social media in reverse: nobody wants to be inside, but some people are only inside, so everybody is inside.

My father might've been onto something in my childhood then. He'd specifically kick me out of the house if he knew it was day I'd be inside playing videogames. Rainy day, snow day, school holiday, missed the bus, whatever the reason. He did this the first time when I was ten and then again when I was fourteen, which were two periods where I struggled with making friends because we had moved.

I compare this to my neighbour's daughter who is now about the same age I was when my dad would kick me out of the house, and said neighbour's daughter never goes anywhere without her parents. She's somewhat socially maladjusted and doesn't know how to get along with other kids her age outside of sports, and I believe this is because she's not around other kids outside of school except for basketball practice or matches she's in. She wasn't like this a few years ago. It's alarming how such an athletic child can spend so much time inside the house doing... Whatever sedentary activities.

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