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My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

sashachapin.substack.com

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Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#351

Post by coldtea »

whstl wrote: post #317
Hendrikto wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sure you are familiar with the concept of a metaphor.

Of course, but just because you can throw a metaphor around doesn't make it true. There is no "rule" in life that says that people have to be judgmental assholes to each other. Using a card game to justify the behavior is just a rationalization.

>There is no "rule" in life that says that people have to be judgmental assholes to each other.

Apparently there is, which is why this judgement you speak of happens.

It just happens to be a social rule, and you don't like it, but it's a rule nonetheless. Doesn't have to be an official rule, agreed upon, and signed by each participant, or some physical law.

Hence, the card game metaphor has some merit. Like people think you shouldn't cheat in a card game, many people also think you shouldn't cheat with cosmetic surgery.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#352

Post by coldtea »

whstl wrote: post #325
lazide wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, it’s how it is.

Yes, people who judge others like this are anti-social assholes. Of course that's not as bad as people who try to rationalize bad behavior behind a veil of pseudo-intellectuality. Once again: rationalizations don't make something true.

>Yes, people who judge others like this are anti-social assholes

On the contrary, since many (if not most) people do it, they're on the social side.

>Once again: rationalizations don't make something true

When it comes to social truths, what most people do make them so.

If most people think X bad, X is bad is a social truth. Doens't matter if you think X is "not bad in reality". Reality doesn't care about good or bad anyway, it doesn't have a morality.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#353

Post by xamuel »

donatj wrote: post #52

> The other day, someone told me, “I can’t imagine you ever being awkward with people.” I was telling my therapist of several years recently about being uncomfortable with the number of new people I've had to meet recently. He seemed surprised that I wasn't excited by it all and said something along the lines of "You seem like a very social person, that seems out of character." It struck me… am I really that good at…

>I have zero idea how to make small talk with people I haven't known for years.

Here's a trick, it sounds stupid but it works like magic.

Just talk about mundane things that are physically present. Mention the color of the wallpaper. Mention the painting on the wall. Talk about how noisy the room is, or about the food on the plate in front of you. Literally act like you're an image classifier tasked with outputting a text summary of the scene you find yourself in...

If you're the cerebral type like I am, you'll feel afraid these topics will bore the other person. But surprisingly, they don't, if the other person is neurotypical.

Non-weird people are really weird.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#355

Post by coldtea »

wedje wrote: post #344
underlipton wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is where the high incidence of neurodivergence in the trans community and certain subcultures (furries, roleplaying) comes to fore. Autism is often accompanied by identity conflicts - between what you're labeled as, and how people treat you, and how you feel about yourself - because communication disruptions are common when neurotypes are unaligned, and identity is both the reason for and the means by wh…

> presenting as a woman When autism meets sexism.

The goalposts for "sexism" have moved to the edge of the galaxy if people today think that's sexism.

Parent says that "identity is socially-constructed", they defend trans people, they say it "isn't any less justifiable than being assigned good ol' football-playin', roughhousin', English class-hatin', red-blooded American manhood"

- but the fact they said "presenting" as opposed to "being" a woman is sexism, as if they're some "chauvinist pig"?

That's why we can't have nice things...

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#356

Post by alfonsodev »

Aurornis wrote: post #47

This post wasn't what I was expecting from the "socially normal" title. While there is a lot of self-reflection and growth in this piece, a lot of the points felt more like learning how to charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. Look at the first two subheadings: > 1: Connecting with people is about being a dazzling person > 2: Connecting with people is about playing their game The post felt like a rollercoa…

The difference between manipulation and influence is that on the first one you are the only one taking advantage of the situation, and the second one you genuinely believe the other person will end in a better place and if you are wrong no harm is done.

I guess is also about if you care about the other person or you are just pretending, unfortunately in my opinion there is no way to know, because some people are really good at pretending to care, and even supporting you with a hidden score tracking board, basically they are investing.

And then there are people that really care about you and because they know they can't do anything or don't know what to say, they won't reach to you.

I guess we are only left with our instinct and that is something that you learn to calibrate with time.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#357

Post by alexpotato »

I liked this post for three reasons:

1. Smart person faces problem, observes what's going on, thinks about it and finds solution

I mention this b/c a lot of folks feel like "I'm me and I know something is wrong in what I'm doing but I don't know what" and stop there.

But a lot of life is just learning new skills. That can be from books, videos, friends, or just opening your eyes and seeing what other people are doing and then modeling that behavior.

2. The pieces you need are already in you

I used to be TERRIBLE at dating. e.g. I would go on dates with smart, funny and attractive women (mostly met online). The date would start out great and then something would happen halfway through and I could tell the energy went away. It go so bad that I almost wanted friends to sit near me and then point out what I was doing wrong.

After reading some dating books, I realized what it was:

There were a LOT of women in my extended family (mostly female cousins, strong personality outgoing aunts etc). I though "dating" == "hanging out with women like my family". The books pointed out that "dating" is has a large component of "playful teasing, being cocky funny".

I already knew how to do that but didn't realize it applied to dating!

3. Work with what you have

Some other commenters have pointed out that some of what he mentions is "being fake" or "being someone else"

I make this analogy:

- You are a certain height

- That is tough to change

- BUT you can work out, get a haircut, get dental work etc

- aka there are MANY small things you can do to improve your physical appearance even if you can't change your height.

The same is true of personality: you have a core set of values and beliefs. That being said, you choose which stories you tell, how you tell them, when to let the other person speak instead of you speaking for longer etc.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#358

Post by hasbot »

I skimmed the article and one of the things that occurred to me is that it was lucky that they worked as a busboy for a bit. Lucky in the sense that there was plenty of opportunity to try various social approaches on the many people they encountered each day. Most of us only interact with a few people in total each week and don't get any encounter resets. I remember a few years ago living in a small town and dreading being invited to the rare party. I'd met everyone, had a brief encounter, and neither they nor I had any desire to further the interaction.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#359

Post by Yizahi »

rester324 wrote: post #176

Does this person have some kind of mental issue? I am seriosuly asking this, not mocking him. Because by reading through this post it stands out to me that he doesn't mention or highlights empathy. And that's where his problem stems from

At a guess, he does have empathy. He didn't know how to get that empathy across, to the other person, and these are the stages he went through in learning how to do it. You see, the intent and the execution can be completely or partially divorced in some people. I can truly empathize the other person, the beginning of the process is there, but I wouldn't know the right words, tone or gestures hot to proceed with my empathy. And then it is fifty/fifty, maybe a person would decide to ignore my lack of execution and will start deep dialog on their own and then my empathy can allow me to honestly respond and continue it. Or maybe they will decide not to do it and the deep dialog wouldn't happen in the first place.

Not every closed-in and awkward person is lacking empathy.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#360

Post by bayindirh »

coldtea wrote: post #348
YurgenJurgensen wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say ‘somehow’ like the reasoning isn’t obvious. Physical attractiveness is a signal of reproductive fitness when it’s genetic, and not otherwise.

The reductionist biological explanation might be obvious to you, but in the actual world, the reasoning and the moral condemnation of things like plastic surgery is never explicitly about giving false signals regarding one's reproductive fitness. Reasons "haters" cite are about vanity, narcissism, refusing to look your age, etc.

For me, motivation matters. If you want to learn social skills to make your life easier while not harming others, that's perfectly fine, admirable even, but if you learn it to damage others for your own profit, that's immoral.

Same for the motivation of surgeries. You might not be comfortable with yourself, and want to change something, and that's perfectly fine, but again to changing appearance signal something to benefit you and harm others with less effort, it's immoral again.

And, I believe, if you need to change how you behave or look to get acceptance from a circle, this means the circle is toxic and you'll be far happier elsewhere.

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