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Apple M5 chip

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Re: Apple M5 chip

#351

Post by oskarkk »

gcr wrote: post #165

So how many hardware systems does Apple silicon have for doing matrix multiplies now? 1. CPU, via SIMD/NEON instructions (just dot products) 2. CPU, via AMX coprocessor (entire matrix multiplies, M1-M3) 3. CPU, via SME (M4) 4. GPU, via Metal (compute shaders + simdgroup-matrix + mps matrix kernels) 4. Neural Engine via CoreML (advisory) Apple also appears to be adding a “Neural Accelerator” to each core on the M5?

Would it be possible to use all of them at the same time? Not necessarily in a practical way, but just for fun? Could different ways of doing this on CPU be done in some extent by one core at the same time, given it's superscalar?

Re: Apple M5 chip

#352

Post by leshenka »

ironman1478 wrote: post #325

It's surprising to me macs aren't a more popular target for games. They're extremely capable machines and they're console-like in that there isn't very much variation in hardware, as opposed to traditional PC gaming. I would think that it's easier to develop a game for a MacBook than a Windows machine where you never know what hardware setup the user will have.

I was very surprised, and pleasantly too, that Cyberpunk 2077 can maintain 60FPS (14", M4 Pro, 24gb RAM) with only occasional dips. Not with full resolution (actually around FullHD), but at least without "frame generation". Turning frame generation on, it now can output 90-100 FPS depending on environment, but VSync is disabled so dips become way more noticeable.

It even has "for this mac" preset which is good enough that you don't need to tinker with settings to have decent experience.

The game is paused, almost like becomes "frozen" if it's not visible on screen which helps with battery (it can be in the background without any noticeable impact on battery and temperature). Overall way better experience than I expected.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#353

Post by neogodless »

lazypenguin wrote: post #340
ironman1478 wrote: post #325

It's surprising to me macs aren't a more popular target for games. They're extremely capable machines and they're console-like in that there isn't very much variation in hardware, as opposed to traditional PC gaming. I would think that it's easier to develop a game for a MacBook than a Windows machine where you never know what hardware setup the user will have.

As far as I’ve seen, Apple is to blame here as they usually make it harder to target their platform and don’t really try to cooperate with the rest of the industry. As a game developer, I have to literally purchase Apple hardware to test rather than being able to conveniently download a VM

I'm not a subject matter expert, but I do find it a little odd to read the second half of that. I'd expect, beyond development/debugging, there's certainly a phase of testing that requires hardware that matches your target system?

Like, I get if you develop for consoles, you probably use some kind of emulation on your development workstation, which is probably running Windows. Especially for consoles like XBOX One or newer, and PS4 or newer, which are essentially PCs. And then builds get passed off to a team that has the hardware.

Is anyone developing games for Windows on Apple hardware? Do they run Parallels and call it a day? How is the gaming performance? If the answers to those 3 questions are "yes, yes, great", then Apple supports PC game development better than they support Apple game development?

Re: Apple M5 chip

#354

Post by Noaidi »

timeon wrote: post #317
jeffbee wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm interested in reading about your low-carbon lifestyle that is so efficient you got to the point of giving up machine inference.

Depends where you are. People in some countries have lot of catching up: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co-emissions-per-capita Maybe they are in USA - every little think counts there.

I am in the US, and thanks for that link. I am of the opinion that the Climate Crisis should be the number one focus for everyone right now.

So, to keep this on point, Apple making a faster chip is not on my climate change agenda and anything but negative.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#355

Post by [deleted] »

lazypenguin wrote: post #340
ironman1478 wrote: post #325

It's surprising to me macs aren't a more popular target for games. They're extremely capable machines and they're console-like in that there isn't very much variation in hardware, as opposed to traditional PC gaming. I would think that it's easier to develop a game for a MacBook than a Windows machine where you never know what hardware setup the user will have.

As far as I’ve seen, Apple is to blame here as they usually make it harder to target their platform and don’t really try to cooperate with the rest of the industry. As a game developer, I have to literally purchase Apple hardware to test rather than being able to conveniently download a VM

[deleted]

Re: Apple M5 chip

#356

Post by kemayo »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #319
markus_zhang wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pretty much see the Macbook as some fancy toys with mediocre software. Maybe the kernel is solid but other software are very meh, even comparing to Windows. But I'm definitely biased as a Windows/Linux user, and my hobby is system programming so naturally a Linux box is more suitable. Biggest grief with MacOS software: - Finder is very mediocre comparing to even File explorer in Windows - Scrollbar and other UI iss…

> - Finder is very mediocre comparing to even File explorer in Windows It really is awful. Why the hell is there no key to delete a file? Where's the "cut" option for moving a file? Why is there no option for showing ALL folders (ie, /bin, /etc) without having to memorize some esoteric key combination? For fuck's sake, even my home directory is hidden by default. > - Scrollbar and other UI issues Disappearing scrollb…

> Why the hell is there no key to delete a file?

Command + backspace.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#357

Post by cmiller1 »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #319
markus_zhang wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pretty much see the Macbook as some fancy toys with mediocre software. Maybe the kernel is solid but other software are very meh, even comparing to Windows. But I'm definitely biased as a Windows/Linux user, and my hobby is system programming so naturally a Linux box is more suitable. Biggest grief with MacOS software: - Finder is very mediocre comparing to even File explorer in Windows - Scrollbar and other UI iss…

> - Finder is very mediocre comparing to even File explorer in Windows It really is awful. Why the hell is there no key to delete a file? Where's the "cut" option for moving a file? Why is there no option for showing ALL folders (ie, /bin, /etc) without having to memorize some esoteric key combination? For fuck's sake, even my home directory is hidden by default. > - Scrollbar and other UI issues Disappearing scrollb…

> Why the hell is there no key to delete a file?

Cmd+delete? I don't really want it to be a single key as it's too easy to accidentally trigger (say I try to delete some text in a filename but accidentally bump my mouse and lose focus on the name)

Re: Apple M5 chip

#358

Post by GTP »

ironman1478 wrote: post #325

It's surprising to me macs aren't a more popular target for games. They're extremely capable machines and they're console-like in that there isn't very much variation in hardware, as opposed to traditional PC gaming. I would think that it's easier to develop a game for a MacBook than a Windows machine where you never know what hardware setup the user will have.

Up to some years ago, it was common for gamers to assemble their own PC, something that you can't do with a Mac. Not sure if this is still common among gamers though.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#359

Post by GTP »

matthew-wegner wrote: post #350
jayd16 wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mac dev sucks. You're forced to use macos and xcode (for the final build anyway). You're not able to virtualize the build machines. Apple is actively hostile to how you would build for Linux or PC or console.

> You're not able to virtualize the build machines. Sure you can. And officially, too. Apple still ships a bunch of virtualization drivers in macOS itself. Have a look: /System/Library/Extensions/IONetworkingFamily.kext/Contents/PlugIns/AppleVmxnet3Ethernet.kext Whether or not you're using ESXi, or want to, is an entirely different question. But "you're not able to" is simply incorrect. I virtualize several build age…

> Apple still ships a bunch of virtualization drivers in macOS itself.

I think OP means virtualizing on something that isn't Apple.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#360

Post by zuspotirko »

hannesfur wrote: post #167

It’s unfortunate that this announcement is still unspecific about what they improved in the Neural Engine. Since all we know about the Neural Engine comes from Apple papers or reverse engineering efforts ( https://github.com/hollance/neural-engine ), it’s plausible that they addressed some quirks to enable better transformer performance. They have written quite interesting papers on transformers on the Neural Engine:…

ofc true. Unified memory is always less than vram. And my 16GB vram aren't enough.

But I think it's also a huge issue Apple makes storage so expensive. If Apple wants local AI to answer your questions it should be able to take your calender, emails, text messages, photos, journal entries etc. into account. It can't do that as nicely as long as customers opt for only 256GB or 1TB devices due to cost

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