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Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

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Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#351

Post by motorest »

gpvos wrote: post #315
motorest wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because they know that "Western" powers would wage war if necessary. Why do you feel the need go single out "the west"? I mean, where do you think the container ships crossing the Suez go to and come from? Do you think that the likes of China would be totally ok with their main trade routes being severed and instead having to go all the way around Africa? You're framing things as if there's still a British empire s…

Maybe not so much the Brits, but the French still have exploitative relations with their African ex-colonies; look up the CFA franc.

> (...) the CFA franc

Why do you think this is relevant in discussions over who would respond to shutting down the Suez canal? I mean, do you have a map?

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#352

Post by DeH40 »

like_any_other wrote: post #172
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European companies have had massive investments in China for decades now. Many people in the West have no idea what's going on in China. Western brands and investments are all over the place. Half the cars on the streets used to be European or American (and that has only recently changed, due to the rise of EVs). Yet Europeans and Americans often complain, "Why can't Western companies operate in China?" Excuse me?

The question was, emphasis mine: "which firms in China are controlled by European entities?" Western brands have investments , but are required by law to have a local partner, that learns the trade and eventually copies the product: China bars foreign companies from participating on their own in many industries, but in some of those industries foreign companies can participate only by forming a joint venture with a C…

That’s a common misconception, but it's factually incorrect. European companies can, and do, acquire and control companies in China.

The legal framework and the reality on the ground show a very different picture.

1. The Law Explicitly Allows It: China's Foreign Investment Law (effective since Jan 1, 2020) clearly states that foreign investors are permitted to acquire the shares, equity, or other similar interests of domestic Chinese enterprises.

2. The "Negative List" System: China uses a "Negative List" model. This means any industry not on the list is fully open to foreign investment, often up to 100% ownership. This list has been shrinking every year, opening up more sectors. For instance, all restrictions in the manufacturing sector were removed. While there are still restrictions in very specific strategic areas (like news media or rare earth mining), this is not a blanket ban by any means.

3. Real-World Examples of European-Controlled Companies in China:

You don't have to search hard to find major Chinese operations controlled by European firms. Here are just a few high-profile examples:

Automotive: German automaker BMW raised its stake in its Chinese joint venture, BMW Brilliance Automotive, to 75%. This is a landmark case of a European company taking majority control of a major automotive manufacturer in China. Similarly, Volkswagen owns a 75% stake in its EV-focused Volkswagen Anhui venture.

Chemicals: Germany’s BASF is building a massive new Verbund site in Guangdong. It's a €10 billion project that is 100% owned and operated by BASF.

Retail & Consumer Goods: All IKEA (Sweden) stores in China are operated by its wholly-owned subsidiary. French beauty giant L'Oréal and luxury groups like LVMH and Kering all operate through wholly foreign-owned enterprises in China.

Finance: German insurer Allianz established Allianz (China) Insurance Holding, the very first 100% foreign-owned insurance holding company in the country.

So, the idea that a European company "wouldn't be allowed" to buy a Chinese company is a myth. While the process involves regulations (just like any country), it is legally possible and happens frequently across many industries.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#353

Post by [deleted] »

skinkestek wrote: post #350
itopaloglu83 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody is a fan of free access and capital markets, until a foreign entity purchases something of importance. It’s a continuation of recent trends and closing markets. Nobody in their sane mind would allow a company like ASML or the likes to be purchased by competitors. But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the…

> But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the whole hell would brake loose. Russia has nationalised a number of Western companies since 2022, even McDonalds. Nothing happened.

[deleted]

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#354

Post by mk89 »

bgnn wrote: post #317
Luker88 wrote: post #61

I don't know if something similar was feared, but I would like to remind people of what happened in 2020 with China and ARM. You don't get into the China market without losing control.

Can't you say the same for the West though? This news is about a Chinese company's control being taking over by a Western government.

In no way this is comparable, come on.

When you run your business in China, China runs the copy of your business for you ;)

I do understand that we want to try to see "the same" in the stupidity of our politicians that let all of this happen just like that for many years, but we are different.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#355

Post by mk89 »

contrarian1234 wrote: post #322
devnullbrain wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Arm China CEO went rogue and spun it off as its own company. ARM HQ were unable to fire him, as he had physical possession of the company's seal stamp. Reading between the lines, the Chinese government chose not to intervene for multiple years.

This stuff constantly happens to foreigners in China and just seems to be mostly due to having bad local legal teams. If your CEO can run off with the company stamps and screw you over.. then it just sounds like amateur hour and you have no idea what you're doing. The legal system there is fundamentally very bureaucratic - there are rules, but they're very different from the West. You need local help - and a lot of i…

So you're saying that ARM just went there to open an office without knowing what they're doing?

We're talking about the same ARM...?

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#356

Post by notTooFarGone »

skinkestek wrote: post #350
itopaloglu83 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody is a fan of free access and capital markets, until a foreign entity purchases something of importance. It’s a continuation of recent trends and closing markets. Nobody in their sane mind would allow a company like ASML or the likes to be purchased by competitors. But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the…

> But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the whole hell would brake loose. Russia has nationalised a number of Western companies since 2022, even McDonalds. Nothing happened.

I have a feeling the function that tell us "if hell breaks loose" has something to do with number of nukes ready and waiting.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#357

Post by [deleted] »

corimaith wrote: post #120
jaccola wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood this, I believe very strongly in the free market, but only where there is a free market. Of course you can let the free market run free up to the border of e.g. the US but surely it won't solve international trade since many countries do not have a free market. Unless we agree some international rules such that the boundary of the free market "sandbox" becomes the earths borders. It's why I also th…

You are 100% correct. Free Trade hasn't been disproven, only the inane notion that one should pursue unreciproval free trade with a countries that perform mercantalism against them. The consumer isn't everything, the worker does matter just as much.

[deleted]

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#358

Post by gman83 »

consumer451 wrote: post #343
satvikpendem wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And China doesn't (didn't?) allow foreign companies to operate in China without a local partner at all Tesla was the first to buck this trend.

The next question is: why did China give Tesla this unprecedented deal? The answer I heard at the time was to get local suppliers and workforce up to Tesla standards. It appears to have worked out for China quite nicely.

Well yeah, they used this playbook with Apple as well.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#359

Post by motorest »

globalnode wrote: post #349
noobermin wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The age of globalism and unfettered free trade is over, and good riddance.

free for me but not for thee

> free for me but not for thee

That's rich, coming from a country which outright bands foreign corporations from even operating within their borders, and those who they allow have to operate through a state-controlled corporate minder.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#360

Post by consumer451 »

gman83 wrote: post #358
consumer451 wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next question is: why did China give Tesla this unprecedented deal? The answer I heard at the time was to get local suppliers and workforce up to Tesla standards. It appears to have worked out for China quite nicely.

Well yeah, they used this playbook with Apple as well.

We do not appear to be very smart as a country.
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