Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been considering this as my Android exit plan (as part of a slow rolling de-googling effort, even before the recent "sideloading" news). Are you using it as a daily driver? I'm sort of surprised it doesn't get brought up more.
Yes, I used SailfishOS as a daily driver since ~2014 until last year when I moved to the Furi FLX1. The FLX1 has been my daily driver since. SailfishOS is much more polished, but it's not fully FOSS, and it follows upstream much less closely. FLX1 is basically in-sync with Debian testing, with the exception of kernel.
Linux phones are more important now than ever
351–360 of 515 posts
Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever
#352Earlier quoted context omitted.
> prevents me from taking screenshots if an app author doesn't want me to The most frustrating part about this "feature" is that you don't know it's enabled until the screenshot is taken and you're left with a picture of nothing. That and some app authors thinking they're protecting you with this (referring to banking apps in particular)
I want to send my new IBAN to my company, I can, no screenshot allowed on the screen with banking information. So I need to log on their website to do it. At least my new bank allows such screenshot and to copy account information directly from the app.
Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever
#353Earlier quoted context omitted.
Less conspiratorial answer: Bootloader unlock removal: It's actually not happening all of a sudden. The dam-breaking moment is more that Samsung, the number #1 Android vendor, decided to stop supporting it. The vendors stop maintaining bootloader-unlocking methods because the cost/benefit profile to develop/maintain/support that feature and its consequences is simply not sufficient, all while several of the biggest c…
The government is also keen to have these devices controlled more tightly. Now with the help of the big companies so much data is on the device and in the cloud about you that policy enforcement, tax evasion or anything else that the people in the government deemed crucial for them is much more easily done. Check how China controls the Uyghurs phones and will they be happy to have "unlocked bootloaders". It's not pro…
Not to oppose what you wrote, but let me try to give you a different view on the same picture to support a different conclusion:
In the eye of most governments these devices play such a minor role that they practically don't even exist.
What governments see is messaging services, finance services, digital marketplaces, and so on. It was and is their job to do that. They used to regulate telecom providers, financial institutions, marketplaces in the past, and they are now catching up realizing that the carrier is no longer the messaging provider, banks are not in control of all finance flows, marketplaces exist beyond the classical physical markets, etc.
If you look at detailed regulation and laws, Governments still have little interest in the explicit devices, they still look at those new variants of classical services and try to adapt to them.
But what the PROVIDERS of those services do, is creating pressure on the devices to help them reach lowest-effort compliance for their SERVICE-requirements (--> "let's make the end-user device bulletproof trusted, so we can offload our responsibilities to his device").
This is in most cases why the devices evolve the way they do. Because they are a merge of product and services (often from the same vendor), and the product is evolving to satisfy the needs for those services.
That's why fighting for "ownership of your device" is mostly futile, because the assumed opponent in this fight doesn't even feel addressed.
You need to bring the fight to their topics, to the topics relevant for governments:
On how a citizen ID should be verified, how financial services should be realized, how a competitive market should be ensured also on digital markets, etc.
Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever
#354Earlier quoted context omitted.
I want to send my new IBAN to my company, I can, no screenshot allowed on the screen with banking information. So I need to log on their website to do it. At least my new bank allows such screenshot and to copy account information directly from the app.
There is a special place in hell for people providing non copyable text information in the form of screenshots.
Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever
#355What's the hardest part about an open phone? Cellular support? App support? Maybe I'm unique, but nowadays 99% of my phone time is spent in a browser. If anything, it seems easier now to get something like this going because all you'd need is a bare bones UI and a good web browser. Sure, it's not competitive with a Samsung foldable, but he I've gotta start somewhere... I do sort of wonder if an x86-based phone is at…
Very good question; what's holding us back really? If we want an open phone there should be more discussions on this. Some thoughts aided with chatgpt:
Easy: get display, sound, cellular, sensors, inputs working
Harder: (efficient) Power management, App ecosystem: distribution, SDK, compatibility, (tight) Privacy controls, (robust) Update delivery system, (vast) Hardware support, Backward compatibility, Accessibility, Localization, Customizability, Camera (apparently)
Beyond tech:
Proprietary hardware drivers: how do you get the hardware manufacturers' commitment to allocate their engineers to write drivers for the open phone system? Reverse engineering requires more effort and is not very sustainable.
Carrier requirements: Supporting and testing emergency services, lawful interceptions, certifications, possibly differing requirements for each carrier and regions.
Regulatory compliance: Constantly changing requirements by nations and geographical regions.
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Reading from the other comments, power management seems very hard to get right.
The non-tech reasons seem to be the most challenging; it introduces the most complexity and it's not exactly something that can be achieved by a passionate person in an evening
Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever
#356My Android phone prevents me from taking screenshots if an app author doesn't want me to. My Android phone prevents me from recording phone calls at the request of my carrier, even though it's totally legal for me to do so in my jurisdiction. I'm not loving where this is all going.
The first part also happens on desktop thanks to DRM, unfortunately. Like on Android, it can be worked around, but it's a massive pain to do so. I'm curious about the second part, though. How do carriers influence the call recording feature on your phone? Is it because you run a carrier ROM or is there some kind of integration with the mobile network/SIM card that I'm not aware of?
Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever
#357Earlier quoted context omitted.
My government (Denmark) refusing to let me use their digital identity app because I don't want to accept Google's or Apple's TOS, and Google helping them enforce that via remote attestation services. Luckily there are alternatives in the form of code displays and NFC chips. However, next year I won't be able to watch porn unless I verify my age using a smartphone, no alternatives are planned. Or rather, I have the "f…
> or uploading my face to a porn site. I assume that in the pornography you've decided to consume, the participants are not clad in balaclavas. They're showing their faces to everyone, in perpetuity, which many may no longer want to, and - considering the exploitative nature of the pornography industry, where rape is endemic - some didn't consent to in the first place. So maybe consider that when you're complaining t…
Some people tend to demonize porn, and it might be unethical in their eyes, but fact is: it is not illegal (in most countries). I don't argue that there are issues in the porn industry, but this is an issue with the platforms, that they don't allow the upload of non-consentual material, or and have processes to take it down. This is a 'THEIR' problem (the platform not the victims).
There some of these issues also exist in the standard movie and music industry as well. Hell, it even goes up to company executives and politics. But this is up to law enforcement do their job and to remove the illegal stuff and prosecute the involved persons, not by branding everyone as a suspect.
Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever
#358What I don't get (plz help me) is why out of a sudden this vendors close up their phones and why is Google going this way? What's their intend?
Google services, integrity hardening:
From outside it might be difficult to understand the distinction, but Google is acting here as the owner and maintainer of a services ecosystem, which is the entire Google service-package provided to end-users. For them, Android is provided as a foundation for that package, and they increasingly experience difficulty to contain issues within that ecosystem and prevent them from spreading (piracy, malware, hacking,...).
The logical way out for them to contain those issues is to ensure that members of this ecosystem (=Devices with Google Services, Developers) are vetted more strongly.
Now Android has a history to be an open ecosystem, which allowed it to grow to the size it has now. But similar to the bootloader-unlock situation of device-vendors, the economic incentive of an "open ecosystem" keeps shrinking in comparison to the risks and issues it's causing Google in governing their services-ecosystem.
They obviously decided now that the price they have to pay for that "open ecosystem" (less control over the services ecosystem) is not justified anymore.
Now they have little room to move. In order to preserve that "open ecosystem", they would have to provide the user an option to disable Google Services entirely. But Google services are such a integral part of the OS-experience already that it which would turn the device almost into a completely separate product, different from the product the vendor initially built and the consumer initially purchased.
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I don't expect this to be properly resolved for the sake of "pleasing the community". Products and Services are already so tightly combined in the Smartphone-space that it's hard for most to even understand what it is the user actually purchased when he bought the device.
Now Google the service provider starts to change the users' device in order to maintain his services, and there is no up-to-date definition to what degree they are actually allowed to do this.
How to change that: The underlying customer-protection framework is missing. A solution would be a general legally binding definition of what functions a customer owns if (and when) a device is stripped of any services on top.
If my car loses functions once it loses connection to the manufacturer, this bare set should be communicated as the purchased value ("in exchange for your money"), separately from any on-top ("in exchange for your data") business-model.
In theory this could create competition on the actual purchased value again, instead of continuing to offload the value from the device to some service provided by the vendor/service-provider...
But that's such a complex topic, the implications should be studied much deeper. Also, I don't expect political bodies to fully understand it for years to come, leave alone create a proper case to get the required voting and decision...
Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever
#359My Android phone prevents me from taking screenshots if an app author doesn't want me to. My Android phone prevents me from recording phone calls at the request of my carrier, even though it's totally legal for me to do so in my jurisdiction. I'm not loving where this is all going.
The issue is bigger than that. Why not two people share a device, and when passed from one person to another, delete applications and install all apps and profiles from scratch using verified checksums saved on a blockchain. An OS which could do that is something like Nix. When passed to the previous person same thing, delete and install everything from scratch. Using smartphones in a smart way, not a dumb way, like…
The actual SE filesystem available to a logged in user is pretty complicated. But the short story is that user-data is completely isolated. Presumably application binaries (which require digital signatures by default) are shared; although the "installed" state is not. Successive releases of Android have restricted access to any legacy "shared" data on the device (media folders particularly; pictures and video taken by the camera device have been strongly protected since Forever).
Verified checksums on a blockchain are only useful if they are verified by some provider who associates a blockchain ID with a real-world identity. Not sure what "blockchain" really adds. If anyone can create a blockchain ID, then "verification" doesn't really provide useful information.
Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever
#360I'm a very happy Sailfish OS user, since 2016, before that Meego, Maemo (Nokia N900, N9). I do have an android phone for one App (Deutsche Post) which I use only when I need to ship stuff. Running on a Gigaset (made in Germany, 4KmA battery) I generally get two days of usage, 1 day if I'm stuck on Mastodon. From being able to do SDL2 stuff (Godot 3.5 for instance) with a wayland compositor to just not having f'ked UI…
And there is one more Question I have since you're already here ;-) I'm already doing embedded Linux development in my day job, so I would say I have quite some knowledge in that area. However I haven't found a good introduction to this whole "porting" topic. Do you have some advice on how to get started in that direction? What exactly happens when I flash (say) sailfish onto some (specific) Android version? Why do I even need this? How does the whole libhybris thing work and why don't people just use the binary drivers from some Android image? It's all very confusing to me. Especially since people from the android corner seem to use different terminology that the embedded Linux crowd...
anyway, thanks for your work so far. I hope I can join the SFOS users (again) soon!