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Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

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Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#351

Post by anticensor »

jt2190 wrote: post #186
supernova87a wrote: post #56

By the way, a pet peeve of mine right now is that reporters covering court cases (and we have so many of public interest lately) never seem to simply paste the link to the online PDF decision/ruling for us all to read, right in the story. (and another user here kindly did that for us below: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.223... ) It seems such a simple step (they must have been using the rul…

> … reporters covering court cases… never seem to simply paste the link to the online PDF decision/ruling for us all to read, right in the story This is an editorial decision and not something individual reporters get to decide. Headlines are the same.

It is also meant to lessen the legal burden: when they don't link to primary source, nobody can claim the is inaccurate, missing essential facts or made up.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#352

Post by balder1991 »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #207
IshKebab wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI is a competitor. You know how StackOverflow is dead because AI provided an alternative? That's happening in search too. You might think "but ChatGPT isn't a search engine", and that's true. It can't handle all queries you might use a search engine for, e.g. if you want to find a particular website. But there are many many queries that it can handle. Here's just a few from my recent history: * How do I load a share…

StackOverflow is dead because its rules are nonsensical and many of its users are dicks. It's going to be a real problem going forward, because if AI hadn't killed them something else would have, and now it's questionable whether that "something else" will ever emerge. The need for something like SO is never going to go away as long as new technologies, algorithms, languages and libraries continue to be created.

Besides the issue of repetitive beginner questions, which today could be answered with an LLM, was a significant driver of low-quality content, requiring substantial intervention from StackOverflow.

However, your point stands: as new technologies develop, StackOverflow will be the main platform where relevant questions gain visibility through upvotes.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#353

Post by liveoneggs »

ajross wrote: post #167
jonas21 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not see ChatGPT and Claude as viable alternatives to search? They've certainly replaced a fair chunk of my queries.

> Do you not see ChatGPT and Claude as viable alternatives to search? This subthread is classic HN. Huge depth of replies all chiming in to state some form of the original prior: that "AI is a threat to search"... ... without even a nod to the fact that by far the best LLM-assisted search experience today is available for free at the Google prompt. And it's not even close, really. People are so set in their positions…

Just like google cloud is the best ;)

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#354

Post by tfsh »

chneu wrote: post #318
sylens wrote: post #173

I think ultimately this is a good decision. The web has flourished in part because Google has supported Chrome so well over the years since they are incentivized to do so. You don't have to use Chrome (I don't) to benefit from this second order effect.

Google has systematically shittified the internet with Chrome by pushing bunk standards that other browsers are forced to adopt. Just recently they got fed up with ad-blockers so what do they do? Yeah. Then what just happened with android apps? yeah. Google is not good for the internet. Anyone saying this is just sucking google's dick and siding with a major corporation. Also fuck AMP.

> Google has systematically shittified the internet with Chrome by pushing bunk standards that other browsers are forced to adopt. Out of interest, what standards?

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#355

Post by tfsh »

solardev wrote: post #26
colesantiago wrote: post #2

What does this mean for Mozilla? Where would Mozilla get their 80% of revenue from if Google now has to probably sever and end their search deal for Firefox? [0]. [0] https://www.theverge.com/news/660548/firefox-google-search-r...

Ideally Mozilla would go bankrupt and a better-managed org could fork Firefox and pick up from there.

What a statement. Mozilla going bankrupt would be disastrous, I don't think you appreciate how much effort goes into maintaining and evolving browsers, there are very few entities well funded enough with the expertise to maintain a fork, and that's without making assertions on their altruism. Mozilla's is in the right place, even if far too often they miss the mark.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#356

Post by balder1991 »

jeffhwang wrote: post #244
IshKebab wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI is a competitor. You know how StackOverflow is dead because AI provided an alternative? That's happening in search too. You might think "but ChatGPT isn't a search engine", and that's true. It can't handle all queries you might use a search engine for, e.g. if you want to find a particular website. But there are many many queries that it can handle. Here's just a few from my recent history: * How do I load a share…

I personally have moved almost all my Stack Overflow usage to LLMs. Just wondering if other folks have done the same…

The thing is, a lot of questions user have aren’t unique, maybe just with a slightly different context and LLMs are good at adapting answers to other contexts.

But it only works for stuff that is already consolidated. For example, something like a new version of a language will certainly spark new questions that can only be discussed with other programmers.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#357

Post by VoidWhisperer »

tyingq wrote: post #278
bawolff wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of the lessons of Wikipedia, is the more you link out the more they come back. People come to your site because it is useful. They are perfectly capable of leaving by themselves. They don't need a link to do so. Having links to relavent information that attracts readers back is well worth the cost of people following links out of your site.

Interesting example, as Google used to link to Wikipedia much more prominently, then stopped doing that, which dropped Wikipedia's visitor counts a lot. A very large percentage of Wikipedia's visits are Google referrals. Google shifted views that used to go to Wikipedia first to their in-house knowledge graph (high percentages of which are just Wikipedia content), then to the AI produced snippets. All to say, yes...W…

I would argue that this is less an example of why linking out may be bad for engagement and more an example of google abusing its intermediary/market position to keep users on their own pages longer

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#358

Post by AlexanderTheGr8 »

Apple stock is up 3%, strongly implying that this ruling is good for Apple as well. That is in contradiction to a lot of folks saying that this ruling means Google won't have to pay Apple. While the terms of the deal with Apple will likely change, based on the stock price increase, Apple will likely end up with a different deal (if not better).

Another thing to note, contrary to some comments, is that Google is still allowed to make a deal with Apple to be the default search engine, but with extra rules.

``` Google also would be permitted to pay Browser Developers, including Apple, to set Search as the default GSE, so long as the Browser Developer (1) can promote other GSEs and (2) is permitted to set a different GSE on different operating system versions or in a privacy mode and makes changes, if desired, on an annual basis. ```

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#359

Post by balder1991 »

crazygringo wrote: post #53
bediger4000 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not. I prefer to read the primary sources, LLM summaries are, after all, probabilistic, and based on syntax. I'm often looking for semantics, and an LLM really really is not going to give me that.

Funny, I use LLM's for so much search now because they understand my query semantically, not just its syntax. Keyword matching fails completely for certain types of searching.

Also weirdly LLMs like ChatGPT can give good sources that usually wouldn’t be at the top of a Google query.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#360

Post by AlexanderTheGr8 »

AlexanderTheGr8 wrote: post #358

Apple stock is up 3%, strongly implying that this ruling is good for Apple as well. That is in contradiction to a lot of folks saying that this ruling means Google won't have to pay Apple. While the terms of the deal with Apple will likely change, based on the stock price increase, Apple will likely end up with a different deal (if not better). Another thing to note, contrary to some comments, is that Google is still…

To add on: a 3% stock shift means that the search-engine deal was worth >=3% of the stock. That is massive free cashflow. In 2022, Google paid Apple $20B (full profit bec negligible costs) while Apple's total profit was around $100B. 20% of Apple's total profit came from Google's search deal. Based on this, I am sure the stock price worth would be much higher than 3% (actual numbers are complicated because stock price accounts for future growth of things).
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