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Six months into tariffs, businesses have no idea how to price anything

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Re: Six months into tariffs, businesses have no idea how to price anything

#351

Post by fcatalan »

monero-xmr wrote: post #263
danans wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The average European is poorer than the average person from Mississippi, the US’ poorest state Mississippi has a GDP per capita of $53k. 11% of Mississippi's population has no health insurance. Mississippi is one of the highest inequality states in the US. Its median income is $30k. It's Gini Index is 49%. It has poor physical and social infrastructure by advanced country standards. Spain has a GDP per capita of $3…

I know several Spaniards who emigrated to the US, including my sister-in-law. The situation you describe is… one of statistics and not reality

I'm Spanish. I make about 40k/yr. I wouldn't move to the US for, say, 200k.

I have excellent 0€ out of pocket 0 paperwork healthcare. I walk to my 35 hours per week job. I have about 50 days of vacation each year. I have a small second home down in the beach to enjoy them. In my 150k people hometown some years there is a murder or two, and most years there isn't one. When people rob a business they might threaten with a tiny Swiss Army knife, or maybe just yell very hard.

I'll stay thanks.

Re: Six months into tariffs, businesses have no idea how to price anything

#352

Post by adgjlsfhk1 »

hippo22 wrote: post #117
jameslk wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incentives work better than tariffs. Tariffs are less effective due to their uncertainty (why would I build a factory if the next admin removes the tariffs?)

The fact that X is more effective than Y is not an argument against Y if X and Y are not mutually exclusive.

the real problem is that sudden tariff changes are one of the worst tools imaginable. building large scale factories requires spending billions that will only pay off over decades. if the tariff changes every month that's one of the worst things you can do to build confidence in long term bets.

Re: Six months into tariffs, businesses have no idea how to price anything

#353

Post by roenxi »

LeafItAlone wrote: post #290
mancerayder wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fantastic. And tax levy for the city goes down, and cuts are made while middle class people pick up the rest of the burden. Notice your statement is a broad morale, and I'm presenting a consequence out here in the real world. The math of booting wealthy people from the city doesn't play out well for the city.

This argument has been made time and time again. It seems reasonable at first glance, but I’ve seen no proof of it. California, usually mentioned as having high taxes, still has a large percentage of the ultra-wealthy in the USA. Same with NYC. Sure some notable persons have changed their addresses, but overall, they are they hurting? Is there any documented case of a rich-popular municipality increasing taxes on the…

That is one of those questions where if you're asking it, I do question how serous you are in seeking out answers. It is mathematically guaranteed that an optimal rate exists, the topic has been an ongoing research question for several centuries and it is hard to avoid if you spend time arguing economics. Wikipedia points out [0] that scholars dating back to Ibn Khaldun have been working on the topic of pinpointing an optimal tax rate for maximising income.

So while I admit to not providing you with a study in this comment [1], it is pretty obvious they have been done and I don't see what there is to challenge on the topic. Obviously there is an optimal tax rate for maximising revenue, this is an area where there has been a huge amount of research done and if a municipality pushes their rates beyond that point (which will happen with some regularity) it'll see its tax take go down. There isn't much to document, anywhere with taxing authority would be feeling out limits experimentally all the time.

> Sure some notable persons have changed their addresses, but overall, they are they hurting?

They moved states for tax reasons, so yes. Otherwise they wouldn't have moved. If notable people are starting to move then the system sounds like it is very close to the critical point.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve (not that it'd be total tax burden that needs is the limit, not just the slice imposed by one area).

[1] Wikipedia has a lot of sources though if you actually want to look it up.

Re: Six months into tariffs, businesses have no idea how to price anything

#354

Post by ehnto »

ambicapter wrote: post #230
Refreeze5224 wrote: post #200

[flagged]

"very wealthy" is heavily understating just how ludicrously wealthy some of these people are compared to the vast majority, and it's reflected in historical numbers.

I am wondering why "very wealthy" would be so stressed by increased taxes. Don't they have ludicrous wealth, shouldn't it have almost no material impact for them?

Are there money games I am unaware of that means they are running brittle houses of cards and marginal percentage increases in taxes would topple their empires?

I just don't understand the fear or concern, but I am not ludicrously wealthy so I suppose I wouldn't.

If someone is truly strong then they have strength to spare for others. I guess I assume the same would be true of wealth, but perhaps you don't get ludicrously wealthy by being proportionally generous.

Re: Six months into tariffs, businesses have no idea how to price anything

#355

Post by adgjlsfhk1 »

hippo22 wrote: post #132
esseph wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both raw materials and finished goods are tariffed. So if the idea is to be more self sustaining: we cannot. Also, read this: https://www.molsonhart.com/blog/america-underestimates-the-d...

Is the argument here what we should forgo important things because they’re difficult? As far as I can tell, the difficulty will only increase as time goes on.

no. the argument is that show deliberate policy is how you fix long term systematic problems. flash grenades thrown by toddlers just make everything worse.

Re: Six months into tariffs, businesses have no idea how to price anything

#356

Post by platevoltage »

amrocha wrote: post #318
platevoltage wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you think going backwards and becoming a developing nation is a good thing?

What do you think happens when all the “developing” nations develop and refuse to get paid peanuts to make your phones?

The Vulcans come visit Earth and the Federation gets formed. How the heck should I know?

Re: Six months into tariffs, businesses have no idea how to price anything

#357

Post by ehnto »

speakfreely wrote: post #340
anecdatas wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a wealthier person (income of ~1m/year, give or take), I could not more strongly support Mamdani (no 'h' in Zohran's last name afaik). I want a candidate like him in my city to vote for.

If you're still measuring wealth by income, you're probably not in the bracket that is being discussed here. $1 million per year is an extremely comfortable income, but it would take 30 years of saving that, post tax, before you hit $30 million in net worth, which is the entry point for UHNW status.

I do see your point, but it's highly unlikely that they are putting their wealth into a HISA for 30 years. There is likely 0 people who got to UHNW through saving money.

Re: Six months into tariffs, businesses have no idea how to price anything

#358

Post by vineyardmike »

LeafItAlone wrote: post #290
mancerayder wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fantastic. And tax levy for the city goes down, and cuts are made while middle class people pick up the rest of the burden. Notice your statement is a broad morale, and I'm presenting a consequence out here in the real world. The math of booting wealthy people from the city doesn't play out well for the city.

This argument has been made time and time again. It seems reasonable at first glance, but I’ve seen no proof of it. California, usually mentioned as having high taxes, still has a large percentage of the ultra-wealthy in the USA. Same with NYC. Sure some notable persons have changed their addresses, but overall, they are they hurting? Is there any documented case of a rich-popular municipality increasing taxes on the…

> Is there any documented case of a rich-popular municipality increasing taxes on the ultra wealthy and seeing the tax levy go down?

Sort of but AFAIK nothing similar to this. There is some evidence of this occurring in Europe, notably France, but it was structural pretty different. Connecticut, NY, and Jersey often trade a small amount of residents depending on taxes year to year, but none of those individuals are really leaving the NYC economy.

NYC is also pretty unique in the availability of certain high-income jobs and amenities catering to the ultra wealthy. Like high-tax California (and America generally), the extra income and benefits from living there outweigh the costs for many. Massachusetts implemented a millionaire tax and saw a net increase in ultra wealthy individuals.

NYC is already one of the most expensive places in the country. People either live there because it’s worth the cost, or it’s the best place for them to make more millions. There is little evidence to support a minor wealth tax would change that meaningfully.

Re: Six months into tariffs, businesses have no idea how to price anything

#359

Post by platevoltage »

amrocha wrote: post #319
anon291 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it's a crab mentality. I'm ideologically opposed to communism, but I'm happy for the Chinese people. I don't understand why our response is to tear them down, instead of building ourselves up. Seems backwards. When you even mention building ourself, you are accused of being anti American simply because you point out a deficiency in our current development.

China is the most capitalist country in the world.

I've never been to china, but I've seen pictures. It doesn't look like a stateless, classless, moneyless society at all. To me anyways.

Re: Six months into tariffs, businesses have no idea how to price anything

#360

Post by pillefitz »

amrocha wrote: post #319
anon291 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it's a crab mentality. I'm ideologically opposed to communism, but I'm happy for the Chinese people. I don't understand why our response is to tear them down, instead of building ourselves up. Seems backwards. When you even mention building ourself, you are accused of being anti American simply because you point out a deficiency in our current development.

China is the most capitalist country in the world.

And of the more communist ones
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