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Framework Laptop 16

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Re: Framework Laptop 16

#351

Post by 999900000999 »

wolvesechoes wrote: post #347
999900000999 wrote: post #340

I like Framework as an idea, but we're talking about a 1500$ premium over this competing 16 inch laptop. 1200$ https://www.bestbuy.com/product/gigabyte-aero-x16-copilot-pc... I literally can buy 2 of the Gigabyte laptops for the same price. Even if I can swap out some parts, odds are it's still easier( and cheaper) to just buy a new competing laptop ever 3 years. If your motivation is "the environment" you can always…

> If your motivation is "the environment" you can always just donate your old laptop If you care about environment make regulator force companies to make repairable and upgradeable hardware. That could actually have an impact. Putting burden on consumer choices is one of the biggest hoaxes of modern capitalism.

All I want is safe to replace batteries and SSDs.

Both are wear parts.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#352

Post by pmontra »

Deuter8 wrote: post #124
gloxkiqcza wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can’t you map a keyboard button as a mouse click? I agree it’s not the best workaround but it should be a functional one, right?

My current plan is to retrofit buttons to my clickpad. Earlier this week I ordered a few different styles of touchpad buttons from AliExpress to test. I'll build a custom little USB HID device for it once I've picked my favourite one. I don't think I can rely on laptop manufacturers to buck the clickpad trend any time soon, so I'll do it myself.

That would be incredibly cool. Please post a Show HN of your project. I'm afraid that I'll need to do something like that for my next laptop.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#353

Post by bodge5000 »

ethersteeds wrote: post #277
bodge5000 wrote: post #82

I'm glad the AMD GPU option still exists, I don't have great experience with NVIDIA on Linux. The rest of the upgrades, like the new top cover and keyboard, are very welcome

I came to say the same thing. In the late 2010s I ran Linux on a work-issued Lenovo P50 with a Nvidia Quadro M2000M. It was such a miserable experience that I swore to never own another NVIDIA product again. Given both Framework and NVIDIA's checkered histories around Linux driver support, I see no reason to revisit that, but it is interesting to see the voices in this thread with positive NVIDIA experience.

I said in another comment but exact same experience here (though about a decade later), same laptop and gpu. It's a shame because the P50 is so nice otherwise.

Maybe its just a problem with older Nvidia gpu's, but its not a gamble I want to take

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#354

Post by eviks »

psolidgold wrote: post #337
kristianp wrote: post #281

You've got a 16 inch Laptop, why are the arrow keys so tiny! And where's the PgUp PgDn Home End Insert Delete cluster? I wish a design-based shop like Framework would have some leadership in the keyboard area. This is why I have been exclusively Thinkpads for my last 3 laptops. Something more niche is that I also enjoy the mouse buttons above the trackpad, I can move with the thumb and click with a finger.

The keyboards have full NKRO support and are fully mappable with QMK firmware, plus they offer blank key caps AND a macro or numpad input module. That feels like plenty of leadership to me - that's unheard of in any other laptop. Can't please everyone I guess.

If they designed their keyboard ergonomically, they wouldn't need numpad modules. But yes, can't please everyone, too many people with low standards easily pleasable

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#355

Post by eviks »

rendaw wrote: post #339
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making custom electronics goes way beyond "passionate" and into "has specialized skills and enough capital to get these made".

I think "well just make the PR yourself" comments are too reductionist myself, but in this case Framework does have space for 3rd party components in the marketplace. I don't think it'd be crazy to imagine some custom keyboards will appear there. And here's an example of someone making a custom keyboard: https://blog.perprogramming.com/posts/framework-ortholinear-... - it looks pretty awesome, and I'm fairly sure thi…

> but fit maybe 90%

Bad keyboards fit 0% to the point of injuring x%. Now try to trivialize this more realistic number

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#356

Post by DiabloD3 »

Night_Thastus wrote: post #30
DiabloD3 wrote: post #15

Kinda wish you guys didn't have an Nvidia product at all. It's only really useful for Windows users, but openly hostile and offensive to Linux desktop users.

Like it or not, Nvidia is the dominant player in the GPU space. They have objectively the most powerful GPUs and the best support for development (CUDA). It would be cutting out a massive chunk of Framework's potential customers to not even offer Nvidia GPUs. I don't like Nvidia at all, they're a scummy company. But just offering their products as an option is not "openly hostile and offensive" to Linux users. That's…

Not really.

Until modern times, Intel was the largest GPU manufacture, unless you include phones, then it was Qualcomm.

Now it's AMD, between computers, consoles, and the datacenter.

DGPUs for the desktop aren't really all that relevant for either AMD and NV's bottom lines, they're not major sellers. Switch sales also aren't enough to compete with combined Xbox/Playstation sales.

A lot of claims of NV's superiority is just marketing smoke and mirrors.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#357

Post by DiabloD3 »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #23
DiabloD3 wrote: post #15

Kinda wish you guys didn't have an Nvidia product at all. It's only really useful for Windows users, but openly hostile and offensive to Linux desktop users.

Framework purchasers != Linux users

I don't know a single person that bought a Framework and put Windows on it as the primary OS.

I wish Framework would actually find out what their customers are using, maybe with a survey, because I'd be highly surprised if it was less than 2/3rds Linux (or other FOSS).

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#358

Post by DanOpcode »

kristianp wrote: post #281

You've got a 16 inch Laptop, why are the arrow keys so tiny! And where's the PgUp PgDn Home End Insert Delete cluster? I wish a design-based shop like Framework would have some leadership in the keyboard area. This is why I have been exclusively Thinkpads for my last 3 laptops. Something more niche is that I also enjoy the mouse buttons above the trackpad, I can move with the thumb and click with a finger.

My last 3 laptops have also been Thinkpads. In addition to the mouse buttons above the trackpad, I also enjoy Thinkpad's trackpoint. Too bad Framework doesn't offer any mouse buttons and trackpoint on their keyboards, otherwise I might have considered them.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#359

Post by DiabloD3 »

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #33
DiabloD3 wrote: post #15

Kinda wish you guys didn't have an Nvidia product at all. It's only really useful for Windows users, but openly hostile and offensive to Linux desktop users.

no it's not. Nvidia works on linux too. Not all linux gamers want to use AMD.

Nvidia "working" on Linux requires binary drivers that often have severe issues, especially if your mainline stable kernel is too new.

The new open source drivers that replace Novaeu aren't ready yet, and the closed source drivers had relentless drama over, first, refusal to support Wayland (after the head of Xorg, Keith Packard, officially announced the end of X development, and, second, how all future development will be for Wayland), and then trying to hijack the process with their unwanted EGLstreams API until finally relenting and supporting GBM.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#360

Post by IshKebab »

Deuter8 wrote: post #6
nrp wrote: post #4

I'm happy to answer questions around the new product.

I literally just want a touchpad with buttons. These new 'clickpads' are the bane of my existence. They are so much slower, and certain workflows are impossible. I must use an external mouse now with modern laptops. Why can no laptop manufacturer even make this an option ?

> These new 'clickpads' are the bane of my existence.

But only because they are all worse than Apple's version. What you really want isn't a touchpad with buttons, is a "clickpad" that doesn't suck. And as far as I know only Apple makes them.

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