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Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

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Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#351

Post by millzlane »

spl757 wrote: post #133

There are really two separate claims being made about the P320 and unintentional discharges. One claim is that the gun can fire when dropped at a certain angle from a certain height. The voluntary "recall" lets you send it back to Sig and they replace some parts. I think the cause was because the trigger itself was bulky enough for a drop to give it enough inertia to fire, but I'm not 100% sure on that. The other cla…

I've had one since before the military adopted it. I've been carrying it for years daily. It has never once went off on its own. I run with it, jump with it, have carried it in a small cross body bag. It has never just fired by itself. I have over 5k rounds through it.

The only time my gun has went off was when I pulled the trigger. Has your gun ever went off without pulling the trigger?

Most of the videos I see on YouTube are people who were fiddling with the gun, in some kind of physical altercation, or carry some sort of back on the side they carry. I didn't get the fix from Sig either.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#352

Post by red-iron-pine »

xeromal wrote: post #250
dkbrk wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the link, but I'm not sure what the point of the 50 minute video is. Here's [0] the pdf of the report. It's really not that long. [0]: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L7RXrneHlzfjrewMFIeeyc-nel3...

Context can be helpful for laypeople

50 minutes of video can be helpful for ad revenue.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#353

Post by zoky »

millzlane wrote: post #351
spl757 wrote: post #133

There are really two separate claims being made about the P320 and unintentional discharges. One claim is that the gun can fire when dropped at a certain angle from a certain height. The voluntary "recall" lets you send it back to Sig and they replace some parts. I think the cause was because the trigger itself was bulky enough for a drop to give it enough inertia to fire, but I'm not 100% sure on that. The other cla…

I've had one since before the military adopted it. I've been carrying it for years daily. It has never once went off on its own. I run with it, jump with it, have carried it in a small cross body bag. It has never just fired by itself. I have over 5k rounds through it. The only time my gun has went off was when I pulled the trigger. Has your gun ever went off without pulling the trigger? Most of the videos I see on Y…

> I've had one since before the military adopted it. I've been carrying it for years daily. It has never once went off on its own. I run with it, jump with it, have carried it in a small cross body bag. It has never just fired by itself.

I mean, that’s quite literally survivorship bias…

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#354

Post by chasd00 »

not_a_bot_4sho wrote: post #117
chasd00 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t conceal carry but it’s commonly known that you don’t draw your weapon unless you’re shooting to kill. In those situations, if there was time to chamber a round then there was time to escape. If you draw your weapon as a warning or, worse, fire warning shots you’ll be arrested for brandishing at least.

> if there was time to chamber a round then there was time to escape This is only true for Usain Bolt. Chambering on draw adds 0.5s or so. For me, that's acceptable for any scenario outside of a pistols at dawn duel in front of an old west saloon.

well, again, let me preface this with I don't conceal carry nor do I feel in my day to day life unsafe to the point I want to conceal carry. However, I got interested in IDPA, as a hobby, which is a shooting competition that does time trials through a practical scenario. For example, move to a station, fire at 4 targets from behind cover, move to another station, reload, move to another station and fire at 3 targets. Your score is determined by speed through the scenarios and the accuracy of your shots. i'm no stranger at all to shooting firearms having spent a large portion of my childhood hunting and years of going to the range. During my intro to IDPA class I was shocked at how hard it is to keep everything straight in your head and operate a handgun safely and effectively under the very minor stress of a time trial and a group of people watching.

Now, in my 49 years i've been in only one situation where i was attacked, beat up, robbed and would have been justified to use lethal force in my defense. Had i been armed I would not have had it together enough in the amount of time i had to chamber a round, aim, and fire. Unless your brain is trained to respond there just isn't time to think through anything, it's like your mental capacity just grinds to a halt in those moments. If you have it together enough to chamber a round, aim, and fire you have it together enough to use run-fu and escape the situation.

finally, once again, i don't conceal carry and thank my lucky stars my job doesn't involve making decisions like draw and fire or don't. Maybe someone with more training and experience will weigh in in this conversation, i'm just giving my two cents.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#355

Post by pxeger1 »

millzlane wrote: post #351
spl757 wrote: post #133

There are really two separate claims being made about the P320 and unintentional discharges. One claim is that the gun can fire when dropped at a certain angle from a certain height. The voluntary "recall" lets you send it back to Sig and they replace some parts. I think the cause was because the trigger itself was bulky enough for a drop to give it enough inertia to fire, but I'm not 100% sure on that. The other cla…

I've had one since before the military adopted it. I've been carrying it for years daily. It has never once went off on its own. I run with it, jump with it, have carried it in a small cross body bag. It has never just fired by itself. I have over 5k rounds through it. The only time my gun has went off was when I pulled the trigger. Has your gun ever went off without pulling the trigger? Most of the videos I see on Y…

I think it's crazy to use anecdotal evidence to decide to continue to use a gun with a small chance of accidental discharge.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#356

Post by sugarplant »

relaxing wrote: post #225
BeetleB wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently got into handguns and training. I recommend everyone who has access to it go into training where you take a real handgun that's been modified to shoot laser and has CO2 recoil. The setup is that you have a screen (perhaps all around you), playing out a scenario. You're in a convenience store, and something may happen that requires you to defend yourself. Even with a fair amount of training, the adrenalin s…

> But if you have good reason to believe someone is after you, this is the only way to go. What pray tell is this hypothetical threat? Who is this attacker who comes in your bedroom in the middle of the night to use lethal force against you, but gives you time to rouse, grab your weapon, and acquire target? Or they wake you by running in with full knowledge committed to memory of the layout of your house and your sle…

im curious where you live where home invasions dont happen. i live in one of the safest states in the US and home invasions happen here.

people actually do commit random violence in home invasions by the way. your having chosen not to look into it at all or read the news ever doesnt negate this. its to say that random violence in home invasions is common, but the point is that it does happen. and i think people should have a very effective means to defend themselves.

theres even been a serial killer that committed home invasions by claiming to be police upon breaking in. this also happened recently with those politicians that got assassinated.

if you dont want to have a firearm thats your choice. dont see why you think this is necessary for other people though.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#357

Post by AngryData »

jmogly wrote: post #347
AngryData wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't going to stop crime in the US or make dangerous areas in the US really any safer though. Nobody is concerned about someone legally carrying deciding to randomly shoot them.

And more people with guns is what is going to stop crime and make dangerous areas safer?

I never said it would make things safer, but it isn't the cause of our crime problems.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#358

Post by lenerdenator »

sneak wrote: post #301
303uru wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

P365 is great if it fits in your hand. But agree, denial has me pretty put off.

The P365 has a design flaw where there is a pinch point on your palm when changing magazines. The first time my partner used it, she gave herself a blood blister on the palm of her hand. Additionally, the trigger is super mushy, with like 4 different sticky break points, where only the last one is actually for firing. I hated everything about it; we bought it only because it fit her hand. It was my first and last Sig…

I've had good luck with the P365s I've fired, though with Sig's apparent lack of QA, perhaps they're not consistent across production batches.

Re: your partner's hand and the blood blister, did you ever find something for that?

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#359

Post by AngryData »

Yeul wrote: post #320
AngryData wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't going to stop crime in the US or make dangerous areas in the US really any safer though. Nobody is concerned about someone legally carrying deciding to randomly shoot them.

I live in the Netherlands a country with a huge drug cartel problem and still civilians don't carry guns. Criminals shoot eachother and occasionally they shoot law enforcement if they are really dumb. Normal people when there is a shoot out just hide until the incident is over. You'd have to be stupid to get involved. More guns do not equal more safety- especially not because your average wannabe Rambo can't shoot fo…

And how is that different than the US? Do you think people when they hear gun shots all grab their guns and run outside in the US? The US has a crime problem, but that crime problem is neither caused by guns nor will be solved by gun prohibitions.

Even despite the prevalence of legal firearms the US busts illegal gun factories every week, there is no feasible way to disarm the US population except through them wanting to be disarmed and willingly destroying their guns. And until US police stop shooting people with impunity, courts stop imprisoning people for being poor, the government stops deploying armed US troops on US soil and running a gestapo squad, and until crime rates drop to something not resembling countries without functioning governments, I don't see why the US population should want to disarm themselves.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#360

Post by lazide »

nabla9 wrote: post #336
lazide wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“On July 31, 2024, a MSP motor officer was standing in a squad area with other members when his department issued Sig Sauer M182 fired uncommanded. The firearm was reportedly secured in the department issued Alien Gear Rapid Force Level 3 holster at the time of firing. According to the MSP motor officer’s statement and the statements of others present, at no time was the trigger pressed intentionally or inadvertently…

I can read what you wrote. You said that the evaluation duplicate something. Only thing they duplicate was the possibility of key firing. You must be referring to that. They were not able to duplicate physical malfunction.

They absolutely were able to duplicate elements of physical malfunction.
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