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GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

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Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#351

Post by const_cast »

astrange wrote: post #36
__turbobrew__ wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think awareness of caloric intake is the problem, there are standardized labels on most foods (especially the bad ones). Most people who are obese know that the calories make them overweight, but they still have the need to eat food — which is what makes obesity a result of addiction. Similarly meth addicts know that meth is bad for them, but they still do it anyways.

How often do people control their own diets? That assumes they buy and cook all their own food, which is only true if you live on your own.

You don't have to - all the fast food menus I've seen contain caloric information. Right on the menu. People still eat it.

Somewhat similar to how a carton of cigs contains a big warning that says "THIS WILL KILL YOU DO NOT SMOKE THIS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES"

Welp...

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#352

Post by friendzis »

AlphaAndOmega0 wrote: post #336
blackqueeriroh wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I would appreciate citations. I'm a doctor on GLP-1s,who had previously convinced my mother to commence the same. In her case, it was driven clearly by failure of other methods to control her obesity and worsening liver fibrosis, on top of pre-existing diabetes. On my end, no such issues at present, but I consider it safe enough that it's a first-choice approach to robust weight loss, and I personally use it in conju…

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38629387/

> Conclusion: Semaglutide displays potential for weight loss primarily through fat mass reduction. However, concerns arise from notable reductions in lean mass, especially in trials with a larger number of patients.

That's a significant long-term damage to health, quite possibly permanent for 40+ patients.

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#353

Post by nwienert »

make3 wrote: post #321
nwienert wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are people so consistently wrong about GLP-1s? The side effects are minuscule in comparison to SSRI’s and the effects on improving habits are massive.

SSRIs barely have side effects

GLP-1 - Mild nausea, always temporary and in the beginning, easy to avoid by tapering dose. Extremely effective.

SSRI - about 10% chance of major sexual disfunction, often permanent, significant likelihood of sleep disturbance, majority get blunted emotions. Debatably effective.

Not really comparable.

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#354

Post by Daishiman »

friendzis wrote: post #352
AlphaAndOmega0 wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would appreciate citations. I'm a doctor on GLP-1s,who had previously convinced my mother to commence the same. In her case, it was driven clearly by failure of other methods to control her obesity and worsening liver fibrosis, on top of pre-existing diabetes. On my end, no such issues at present, but I consider it safe enough that it's a first-choice approach to robust weight loss, and I personally use it in conju…

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38629387/ > Conclusion: Semaglutide displays potential for weight loss primarily through fat mass reduction. However, concerns arise from notable reductions in lean mass, especially in trials with a larger number of patients. That's a significant long-term damage to health, quite possibly permanent for 40+ patients.

That has nothing to do with GLP-1 agonists and everything to do with the fact that rapid weight loss without exercise and sufficient protein intake leads to substantial lean mass reduction.

It's still better unless you were woefully weak, in which case a doctor should have prescribed adequate nutrition and physical activity.

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#355

Post by samus »

alvah wrote: post #250
samus wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since it's so new, of course there aren't any long-term data on GLP-1 takers. However, relying on prior knowledge about people who are good on the metrics, it can be presumed that they will do fine. And won't create financial risk for the insurer due to passing on earlier than expected. But only if they keep taking their meds and/or fix any underlying behavioral and health issues that made them obese in the first cas…

GLP-1 isn’t new - the first trials were 20 years ago & there’s a lot of long term data from its use in diabetes management, prior to the weight loss application.

Ok, sure - but are diabetes patients representative of the whole target market for GLP-1? And there will still be an uncomfortable variable that controls the outcome - patient compliance. That's what makes life insurers woozy.

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#356

Post by pjc50 »

Aurornis wrote: post #203
petesergeant wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder if there is a point at which it is cheaper for health insurance companies to offer subsidized or even free GLP-1s to patients than pay out for other specialized medications. That the NHS is getting to a place where it’ll provide it, I’d say yes.

Everyone likes to bash the US healthcare system, but at the same time it’s remarkable how much subsidized GLP-1 access Americans are getting compared to much of the world. The paradox of discussing healthcare online.

Subsidized by whom?

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#357

Post by esperent »

wincy wrote: post #338
stingraycharles wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t say unnoticeable, but rather a trade-off that’s fine. My stomach is definitely more sensitive, can’t handle coffee in the morning anymore, etc. It probably depends on the person.

I can tolerate tea quite well. Unseeetened iced tea by the gallon, specifically.

I'm not on any medications, and I've never been able to handle tea in the morning. Green, black, iced, hot, matcha. It always makes me feel nauseated unless I've eaten breakfast first. I always drink black coffee though, without problems.

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#358

Post by AlphaAndOmega0 »

friendzis wrote: post #352
AlphaAndOmega0 wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would appreciate citations. I'm a doctor on GLP-1s,who had previously convinced my mother to commence the same. In her case, it was driven clearly by failure of other methods to control her obesity and worsening liver fibrosis, on top of pre-existing diabetes. On my end, no such issues at present, but I consider it safe enough that it's a first-choice approach to robust weight loss, and I personally use it in conju…

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38629387/ > Conclusion: Semaglutide displays potential for weight loss primarily through fat mass reduction. However, concerns arise from notable reductions in lean mass, especially in trials with a larger number of patients. That's a significant long-term damage to health, quite possibly permanent for 40+ patients.

Sounds scary doesn't it? It's a shame that the magnitude of lean-muscle loss is entirely comparable to that of going on a strict diet or fasting:

Intermittent/time-restricted fasting

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar...?

That's simply how the body reacts to a caloric deficit, without additional exercise. If you combine both IFT and resistance exercise, you find no muscle loss at all:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7468742/

That's an apple to oranges comparison, because there's nothing preventing someone from taking Ozempic from exercising on the side.

And in fact, other trials found that the overall ratio of fat:muscle lost was rather favorable, and that functional strength wasn't compromised:

https://dom-pubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/dom.157...

>Based on contemporary evidence with the addition of magnetic resonance imaging-based studies, skeletal muscle changes with GLP-1RA treatments appear to be adaptive: *reductions in muscle volume seem to be commensurate with what is expected given ageing, disease status, and weight loss achieved, and the improvement in insulin sensitivity and muscle fat infiltration likely contributes to an adaptive process with improved muscle quality, lowering the probability for loss in strength and function*

Interpreting the risks and benefits of medication isn't a trivial exercise, if you're driven by a handful of studies or ignorant of the wider context, then it's easy to be mislead.

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#359

Post by esperent »

glp1guide wrote: post #271
ramoz wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain what sucks about being on the prescriptions?

Tried to list them all here: https://glp1.guide/content/are-glp1-side-effects-all-the-sam... It was a while ago, but IMO the list still plays

Which of these are issues that diabetic/pre-diabetic/obese people would be likely to suffer from anyway?

And which of them are issues that people massively changing their diet and dropping weight, while also making lifestyle changes like exercising more (due to finding it easier after losing weight) would be likely to experience?

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#360

Post by Auracle »

stingraycharles wrote: post #284
loeg wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't even that awful in maintenance -- just expensive. The unpleasant part is when you're increasing the dose. After a while at the same dose, it's more or less unnoticeable IMO.

I wouldn’t say unnoticeable, but rather a trade-off that’s fine. My stomach is definitely more sensitive, can’t handle coffee in the morning anymore, etc. It probably depends on the person.

Huh. I’m at a healthy weight but I’m taking retatrutide for IBS and it’s working wonders. Very low dose, though. I originally tried it with semaglutide before the weight loss craze kicked off and the first few days of the week were worse and the latter half of the week was better, so that didn’t make sense for me to stay on.
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