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Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

latimes.com

351–360 of 420 posts

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So apart from some 300 million number, it's just all vibes? Here I was expecting data about how all these illegal immigrants are causing crimes everywhere at higher rates than americans, or how many cats and dogs they've eaten but I guess there's no actual evidence of a crisis.

[flagged]

Before I put my fedora back on and leave, could you answer this question:

Do you truly think the evidence you provided would convince someone ignorant on the matter that there really was a migrant crisis that warrants the Trump administration's behavior?

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#352
post #83

The US is actively choosing to become completely reliant on private providers for access to space, which at this point boils down to SpaceX and Boeing. Both seem unreliable for different reasons. I just cannot see it as anything else than a blunder.

funny enough that even if US government somehow abandon space x, they would just fine

Space X is literally the best in commercial space right now and its not even close, and they already have starlink which basically cash cow that if somehow US cut off spacex

they would just fine, they lost funding sure but they would happy to take foreign customer

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#353
post #16

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This is a illogical position to hold, because clearly nobody applies that same logic about everything else the federal government spends money on. If Texans want to fund a military parade for $45 million, and spend $16 billion on an armed secret police force, they are welcome to do so, but then Californians should not have to fund that (and neither do the rest of us who do not agree with such things while producing a…

> This is a illogical position to hold, because clearly nobody applies that same logic about everything else the federal government spends money on.

That doesn't make it illogical, to make it illogical you'd have to do something like identify a fallacy. The same logic does apply to most of the things the US Federal government spends money on; the US baby boomers built a really stupid system that has destroyed a lot of potential for prosperity. In the US, anyway, China has been having a great time.

> If Texans want ...

I don't know where you're going with that paragraph, so I suppose I'll just agree with it. Doesn't sound entirely reasonable to me (US States aren't supposed to maintain things that look like armies and the idea might fall foul of that; but it also might not).

> ... It's a zero sum game: as a Californian, your tax dollars (whether state or federal) are now going to more objectively horrible things ...

The ideal would be Trump cuts spending, cuts taxes and then the Californians take their taxes and spend it on science funding.

I doubt that is going to happen, but the problem here is the taxes and the stuff Congress is going to be funding instead. Complain about that. If it was just a case of cut spending-cut-taxes then there is nothing stopping US citizens funding science to the same tune with the same money in a way that is more responsive to the details of what is going on. It was always a bad idea to route it through the Federal government, they don't have the bandwidth to debate this sort of issue when the world is looking like it might descend into a large multi-front conflict that could end up worse than WWII and there are riots and military deployments inside the US. It isn't important enough to deserve Congressional attention.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#354
post #16

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Although the article is from the LA Times, California is not the only state with science research. Since research benefits everyone, it makes sense and is more efficient to fund it under the largest possible umbrella.

Counterpoint: No it doesn't. I've included about as convincing an argument so hopefully that satisfies you.

But I feel that is a bit light for a comment so I'll go further - producing food is a benefit to everyone and that isn't funded under the largest possible umbrella. It is funded under a highly decentralised system and works unbelievably efficiently.

There is no reason to think science is different. Even the big projects that need a lot of money (eg, a big Fusion project like ITER) have shown to be fund-able by a disparate group of entities (ironically governments). There doesn't need to be a coordinating central government giving marching orders to make it happen. Interested parties can just fund science directly.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to play the hypocrisy card, theres plenty to go around. However in this case you're presenting a false equivalency. Yes, there were issues with BLM. the people got out of control. But that's not authoritarianism- if anything it was a lack of authority with caused dome of those problems. What you see with protests now is those with authority over-using that authority and wielding it as a weapon against the p…

That's the thing. COVID was a crisis an emergency, and that justified emergency powers. Donald Trump is declaring the current situation an emergency and is making use of emergency powers. You cannot assume "your side" is going to maintain political power forever, and build institutions with that in mind. Build a political system then hand it to your political opponents to run for 4 years. I think people who cheered o…

While it's easy to play the "both sides behave the same" card, in practice though I dont think they do. Fundamentally democrats are still behaving like a party did and are not excusing or indulging in radical governance.

For example At the first hint of a scandal democrats get pushed from office, whereas we've had plenty of Republicans continue in office despite obvious wrong doing etc.

So no, I don't think the next president would behave in the same way - there are fundamental differences in the way the parties are behaving.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#356
post #209
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read about Maduro wanting to imprison the leader of a region of Venezuela, who belongs to the opposition party, you'd call it authoritarianism. If you read that the Secretary of Defense of Turkey declined to commit to obeying court orders, you'd call it authoritarianism. If you read about Viktor Orban sending actual troops rather than police to a city because of a flimsy pretext, you'd call it authoritarianism…

You're ignoring the massive elephant in the room. The previous administration let millions and millions of completely unvetted and undocumented immigrants into our county, creating an unprecedented crisis. I view Trump's actions as reclaiming our country from the brink. All of the instances you mentioned are simply fallout from the crises Trump was handed, and it astonishes me how liberals cannot see this simple fact…

> The previous administration let millions and millions of completely unvetted and undocumented immigrants into our county, creating an unprecedented crisis.

that's a lie.

there were fewer illegal immigrants in 2022 (under Biden) then in 2018 (under Trump) [0]

[0] https://ohss.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2024-06/2024_0418_o...

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#357
post #310
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who think that's a massive elephant are shortsighted. You know what illegal immigrants do? Work. For shitty wages. You know what that does? Boosts the US' labor force and economy, which buffers the declining fertility rate [0]. The fact that anti-immigration (of any sort) folks never think beyond first-effects is mind boggling. Illegal immigration causes some problems; it also solves others. [0] https://en.m.w…

I have no problem with legal immigration - people who have worked hard to become citizens via legal channels, and who love our country. They wouldn't dream of rioting or committing violence, all while waving another country's flag. I have a huge problem with what happened over the last 4 years.

So you're out there protesting that they're deporting Afghans who are here legally, who served alongside our military and would likely be killed if they were sent home, right?

https://timesofsandiego.com/military/2025/06/12/afghani-who-...

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fallacy is thinking all money spent "goes right back into the economy" and ignoring opportunity costs. If you pay people to break windows and then repair them, that money "goes right back into the economy" but it's still a net negative. Government has no mechanism to ensure the money it spends is on things that have a positive ROI, since the money they spend is obtained by force, not by voluntary transactions.

==Government has no mechanism to ensure the money it spends is on things that have a positive ROI== Sure they do, elections.

And this thread is talking about the result of that, and quite a lot of people seem to think this "control via elections" thing isn't working that well.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#359
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recent polls of Trump supporter show that they expect Trump’s policies to hurt them personally, but they support the policies anyway because they think they will hurt liberals more. It is difficult to reconcile that viewpoint with any path to a functioning democracy.

At least with tariffs you can understand there will be short term economic pain for presumed long term economic gain Polling of Biden voters seem to suggest they didn't expect the 20% inflation that happened between Biden entering office and Biden leaving office. They didn't think it would hurt Republicans more, they just had experts denying that anything was happening, like the head of the Fed saying inflation was t…

As a Biden voter, I definitely expected inflation. Trump’s economic policies in the first term were incredibly inflationary, even before covid.

NPR was routinely sounding the alarm back in 2017-18. Inflation typically runs on a ~3-5 year delay vs executive policies.

The crazy thing with the tariffs is that they’re killing investment in domestic production in the US. Check out this graph of private money going to building factories:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/C307RC1Q027SBEA

Any manufacturing job gains over the next few years will clearly be due to Biden’s efforts. (Note that factory construction spending is somehow down slightly for 2025: the deceleration of the investment trend is unprecedented.)

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#360
post #238
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're ignoring the massive elephant in the room. The previous administration let millions and millions of completely unvetted and undocumented immigrants into our county, creating an unprecedented crisis. I view Trump's actions as reclaiming our country from the brink. All of the instances you mentioned are simply fallout from the crises Trump was handed, and it astonishes me how liberals cannot see this simple fact…

People who think that's a massive elephant are shortsighted. You know what illegal immigrants do? Work. For shitty wages. You know what that does? Boosts the US' labor force and economy, which buffers the declining fertility rate [0]. The fact that anti-immigration (of any sort) folks never think beyond first-effects is mind boggling. Illegal immigration causes some problems; it also solves others. [0] https://en.m.w…

You parent is wrong but so are you and you make the same mistakes.

The effects you describe have higher order effects as well that can indeed have negative effects. Not saying republicans would give a crap about them, but they are undeniable. For wages developments and housing prices, topics that fundamentally influence basic needs very much in contrast to GDP growths, even if there are positive side effects as well.

I think compared to the EU these immigrants can only be a net positive because people are forced to ultimately care for themselves.

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