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Postgres IDE in VS Code

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Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#351

Post by tomnipotent »

infamia wrote: post #332
tomnipotent wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> VSCode's marketing Point to this marketing. Here's the blog announcement on the 1.0 releases - what I can't find are any examples of Microsoft over-promising. https://web.archive.org/web/20160422123116/https://code.visu... > MS locked things down... and MS has artificially prevented vscode forks from using those extensions Or like any growing and maturing project they established boundaries - one of which was that…

> Their existing and continued contributions to vscode are significant, so I think they can be allowed to keep some cards up their sleeves like the plugin marketplace or their Python extension. It would have been fine if MS had started with their Python extension being proprietary, that would have been up front and transparent. Instead, they lured folks in (no small part due to open source), and once it became popula…

> It would have been fine if MS had started with their Python extension being proprietary

Except that never happened. Pyright was released first and was and continues to be open source. Pylance was built on Pyright but has never been open source. No promises or commitments were made otherwise. Deprecating the open source Python Language Server in favor of Pylance is also a perfectly reasonable and valid decision - the community was more than welcome to continue maintaining it, but most people I know continue to rely on Pylance.

> Instead, they lured folks in

Saying this doesn't make it true.

> Instead, they lured folks in (no small part due to open source), and once it became popular, they started turning the screws and making things proprietary and locking it down.

Microsoft has not once backtracked on anything vscode-related that's been open sourced. Trying to villianize them for not making everything open source is an argument with no legs.

> I don't think it is unreasonable to ask someone to make their intentions known up front do you?

They have. Point me to a single actual example of Microsoft operating in bad faith, that isn't them deciding to keep some parts of the ecosystem proprietary while 99% remains FOSS.

> Vscodium is an entirely free and open source fork

Microsoft and the vscode team is not making long-term decisions with vscodium in mind. But they are probably worried about Windsurf and Cursor, the latter of which (a billion-dollar company) was caught violating MS's TOS around the plugin ecosystem.

Microsoft has spent over a decade investing in, curating, and improving the vscode first-party plugin ecosystem and being a rather good steward. I think they're perfectly reasonable in keeping it to themselves. Creators are free to upload their plugins to any alternative marketplace. I don't see any arguments being made that can diminish the open source contribution they've made with code - oss just because parts of the branded vscode are proprietary.

> They released the Python stack as fully open source.

Again, no they didn't. Pyright open source. Pylance always closed source. PLS deprecated. But you're entitled to what you borrowed.

Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#352

Post by bsaul »

bigfatkitten wrote: post #323
wredcoll wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That "works" for about as long as you have <10 employees and <3 customers or so. After that the railsapp doesn't get to be the sole owner of the db.

Providing access to other services is what APIs are for. Jeff Bezos famously said[1] that anyone who does otherwise should be fired, and I agree. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18916406

the reason he did that was for business reasons. He wanted to be able to expose any part of the stack as a public service to external customers, and vice versa, to let his internal service compete against the publicly available ones.

But this is only valid when you're trying to build AWS. Not everyone does that.

Relational databases have extensive permission systems for a reason.

Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#353

Post by AdrianB1 »

codeulike wrote: post #228
AdrianB1 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it has a different purpose; VS Code extension and the former ADS are targeted for development, while SSMS is for server and database administration. I am a heavy user of SSMS and can do everything I ever need there, I don't use the VS Code extension for MS SQL even if I have it installed and I use VS Code quite a lot. This is because I am also acting as a backup and supervisor for our DBA team, so I am involved i…

SSMS is also for Development, I've been using it for that for 20 years

I just said what Microsoft is targeting the tools for, not how they can be used.

Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#355

Post by prmoustache »

bargainbin wrote: post #128
TiredOfLife wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A few years ago VsCode was marketed essentially as "Visual studio for beginners", where you were supposed to move to Visual Studio after you became a real dev, When was that?

Yeah I’ve been using it since it was released and can’t ever remember it being marketed as such.

Yeah I only really saw vscode as a "let's capture atom and sublime users, bevause they will not use Visual Studio anyway" approach.

Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#356

Post by jasoncartwright »

deepsun wrote: post #178
FajitaNachos wrote: post #70

Postico has always been my defacto way to interact with Postgres. Curious if there are any Postico users who have tried this yet.

Very Mac-oriented, and I think IntelliJ built-in DB editor has way more functions / features.

The heavy Mac UX compliance is the reason why I enjoy using Postico for 99% of straightforward Postgres tasks

Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#358

Post by ahartmetz »

tomnipotent wrote: post #294
ahartmetz wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe that all business is "just business". You have tobacco companies and Purdue Pharma on one end of the spectrum and, let's say, Mozilla Corporation and Valve (debatable but I think they're cool) on the other end. And, of course, large companies are kinda many different entities, really. Microsoft has a long history of dishonest behavior, some of it pretty sophisticated and with a long-term view. That ma…

> Microsoft has a long history of dishonest behavior Can you point out such recent behavior that isn't just echoing other peoples opinions from the anti-trust case from over two decades ago? It's been my experience that many people seem to "borrow" their opinion about Microsoft from things they've read rather than personal experience so we keep getting the same low-effort criticism ad nauseam.

If eight years is recent enough, Microsoft moved its German office to Munich and got the city of Munich to shut down its Linux migration in return. Not exactly dishonest, but a power move to destroy the competition that I happen to be rooting for.

Personal experience is irrelevant if the facts are not in doubt. One of these is that Microsoft was a pretty bad actor when nobody reigned them in, and I was around at the time.

Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#359

Post by mnahkies »

int_19h wrote: post #346
schrodinger wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The database schema of an app is tightly coupled enough to essentially be code, and migrations are also probably checked in. This lets you see how the db schema changes over time -- likely along with the queries using the schema.

This is only true when your app is the only thing that is using the database. In enterprise environments, databases are frequently shared between many different apps.

Sure, and in those cases you'd typically have a dedicated repository storing said schema and migrations.

It's important to manage your schema in code for various reasons from change control to standing up development databases, etc.

Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#360

Post by dotancohen »

jen20 wrote: post #338
semiquaver wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m confused. Isn’t including the canonical state of the database schema in version control along with all the migrations that brought it to that point a completely standard part of every web framework?

The _canonical_ state is what is in the production database(s). What's in version control is hopefully able to recreate it, with the obvious caveat of being highly unlikely to be able to repopulate the data.

For development, the actual data itself is not so important, but the features of the data are extremely important. Such as which fields have higher or lower cardinality, which fields are accessed often and which are barely touched.

Often times, the indexes will reflect this. Often times, not.

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