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Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

yle.fi

351–360 of 491 posts

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#351
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took my kids out of school from when they were about nine until they were 16. They went back into school with a better education and better prepared for life than those who stayed in school, exams (UK GCSEs and IGCSEs) passed with high grades as as evidence, and obviously better than good social and life skills, and excellent study skills and self-discipline. There are definitely better alternatives to the current…

You don't say what they did as an alternative from age 9 to 16?

They were "home educated". I hate the term BTW because it is misleading, but "home school" is even worse..

I made a comment with more details https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43846310

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#352
post #338

If the goal of school is to develop children into young adults with good reasoning and analytical skills, a basic wholesome world and social model and some practical skills and basic physique, smartphones seem to contribute little and distract a lot from those aims.

I agree with your take on the purpose of schools and that smartphones contribute little. But my concern is that actions like these teach students an additional lesson: That it's okay to coerce people into specific actions or forfeitures if it serves your purposes. Children and teens absorb a lot, and while they don't always absorb the contents of their lectures, they do typically absorb how they're treated and how th…

>That it's okay to coerce people into specific actions or forfeitures if it serves your purposes

It is acceptable for public schools, whose mandate is education of the youth, to enaxt restrictions on behavior to that end.

And smartphones are an addictive item. I want school to be fun and engaging. That doesn't mean every kid who's been raised on an iPad since age 0.5 will put down their phones if the teacher has rizz.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#353

I deplore the fact that schools need to resort to banning phones. When I was younger I imagined a world in which computing devices would be a boon to (young) people everywhere. But many apps appear to be detrimental to people's mental health, both young and old. Possibly this can be changed. Maybe separate app stores are a solution (think f-droid)? Or maybe we need to start looking a lot harder at apps that might act…

The internet is great. A kid even in bumfuck nowhere can today, with a 100$ phone or computer, browse the biggest encyclopedia ever written in human history, read every book every published more 100 years ago (or more recently, if willing to pirate), watch lectures from the world's top universities and professors in subjects from physics to art conservation, listen to more concerts that you'll ever be able to in your entire lifetime, etc etc etc, all for FREE. Tell someone even 30 years ago that she would be able to hear the best orchestras in the world, on-demand, from rural Macedonia or whatever, at no charge, and it would be a vision of an utopian future. And yet here it is.

Unfortunately when you buy a phone you don't get a link to libgen or a youtube account with DW Classical or Veritasium pre-installed on your phone screen. You get tiktok and instagram and similar slop. If even adults are vulnerable to these turbo-addictive attention harvesters, how can kids hope to escape?

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#354

If the goal of school is to develop children into young adults with good reasoning and analytical skills, a basic wholesome world and social model and some practical skills and basic physique, smartphones seem to contribute little and distract a lot from those aims.

My daughter brings her phone to school with her - If he bus doesn't show up, she can call and ask us to come drive her to school - If she wants to go somewhere after school, she can call us and let us know she won't be home at her normal time - If she forgot something at home, she can call and ask us to bring it - etc, etc, etc There's a ton of reasons for her to have her phone on her. Enough so that, when she gets p…

I’m ok with your child having to deal with a few inconveniences if it helps improve an entire generations mental health and development

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#355

At my daughters' school, the rules are roughly: * no phones during classes or during breaks (with the exception of lunch break, I think) * phone can be allowed by teachers for a particular class and purpose * if a student uses a phone while it's not allowed, the phone will be confiscated until the end of the school day * (there might be a more severe rule for repeat offenders) IMHO this strikes a pretty good balance…

In Finland the confiscation is the problem (or rather WAS the problem, until this law). Children are people, people have specific rights. A teacher is just a random person as far as the law is concerned and can't take someone's phone away any more than an usher in a movie theatre can take someone's phone for being disruptive.

By that argument, it sounds like schools in Finland have zero authority. How does punishment work? What's stopping a kid from going anywhere they want at any time or doing litterally anything that isn't outright illegal?

If Finnish children have the same rights as adults, does that mean the children are also subject to the same legal punishment as adults? Can a Finnish child be jailed or fined for the likes of theft, assault, or battery?

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#356
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first two aren't in school. The last doesn't actually require a cell phone. It's worth noting, according to the article, the law gives school officials leeway to allow kids to use their phones in some circumstances. So, the law doesn't stop any of the use cases you've listed.

The first two require she bring her phone to school with her. Could they collect every phone before school and hand them out after? Sure.. but that's a nightmare. The last one doesn't require a cell phone, since the school has phone lines. But it's certainly more convenient to let her use her own phone than have 20 kids in line at the office every morning calling their parents. > It's worth noting, according to the a…

> Could they collect every phone before school and hand them out after? Sure.. but that's a nightmare.

I am pretty sure that no one would know if she just puts it on silent or airplane mode? But in any case my son's class did that for several months in 7th grade, due to an incident (minor but on the worrisome side) and with the agreement of the parents, and it was just fine.

> have 20 kids in line at the office every morning calling their parents.

Maybe next time they will put more attention and in the meanwhile they'll share or borrow what's needed?

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#357
post #151
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are old enough to drive certain vehicles and old enough to buy alcohol Hopefully not at the same time.

They would drive to and from the store. Drinking what they bought is a different matter.

It was meant to be a joke.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#358

If the goal of school is to develop children into young adults with good reasoning and analytical skills, a basic wholesome world and social model and some practical skills and basic physique, smartphones seem to contribute little and distract a lot from those aims.

My daughter brings her phone to school with her - If he bus doesn't show up, she can call and ask us to come drive her to school - If she wants to go somewhere after school, she can call us and let us know she won't be home at her normal time - If she forgot something at home, she can call and ask us to bring it - etc, etc, etc There's a ton of reasons for her to have her phone on her. Enough so that, when she gets p…

If the bus doesn't show up? This must be public buses and not yellow buses. Call your council and tell them to fix the transit system. Meanwhile a child can walk home and get a ride, or show up to the stop earlier.

She can call from where she goes after school, no? Or she can go home first, or make plans a day ahead.

She can learn the consequences of not packing her school bags properly and keep a checklist to review each morning. The only time I recall in 12 years of primary schooling, where I had to get something from home after forgetting, was a prop for a demonstration in front of the class. I remember because it was the only time it mattered.

I am not familiar with your specifics, I don't mean to be personal. I don't have kids. But I am young enough to remember being one - I am also addicted to my phone, and I know how convenient it is to not plan anything and to instantly communicate with everyone. I am unconvinced that children in a controlled, supervised environment need a phone.

I say all this with humility because I haven't dealt directly with kids or the public school system in a long time.

...finally, if I did agree and say "yeah they should at least be allowed to have a phone on their way", it should absolutely be banned in the classroom. But what to do when the children inevitably break that rule? It doesn't sound like you would support them confiscating it, and it's a logistical quagmire to do so anyway.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#359

If the goal of school is to develop children into young adults with good reasoning and analytical skills, a basic wholesome world and social model and some practical skills and basic physique, smartphones seem to contribute little and distract a lot from those aims.

My daughter brings her phone to school with her - If he bus doesn't show up, she can call and ask us to come drive her to school - If she wants to go somewhere after school, she can call us and let us know she won't be home at her normal time - If she forgot something at home, she can call and ask us to bring it - etc, etc, etc There's a ton of reasons for her to have her phone on her. Enough so that, when she gets p…

But why smartphone then? Simple button phone would suffice.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#360
post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were you home schooled, on what are you basing your statement? I'm not in disagreement, I'm just curious, please elaborate.

> Were you home schooled, on what are you basing your statement? I was no. My kids were home educated from about eight or nine to 16 (when they did GCSEs and IGCSE - British exams taken at that age). Overall I think they got a better education than I did (and I sent to a school that was one of the top 10 in the UK academically). The older one is now an adult, will shortly finish a degree in electronic engineering and…

I don't know the concept of home education that well. Is it something the parents do, or do you get private teacher(s) to do it ?
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