Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

librelingo.app

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 376 posts

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#351

Post by mattkevan »

shayway wrote: post #260
mattkevan wrote: post #184

I'm sure this is a wonderful project with talented people behind it, and what I'm going to say isn't a criticism of this project in particular. But. I'm always a little disappointed when I see a project that's Libre[something proprietary]. It's always a wonky copy, where the selling point is that it's a free version of something, rather than a better version of something. The only people who are going to use it are t…

I agree with your overall point - I'd also like to see more novel FOSS projects rather than knockoffs of proprietary software - but at the same time, there's a lot of value in FOSS clones for a few reasons. The main one being: proprietary things tend to get worse over time, while FOSS (with enough momentum) tends to get better. Windows vs Linux desktop is a great example of this; while Linux and its DEs have steadily…

That's a really good point, thank you.

Blender is another good example – incredible product with a great community. It's becoming the default choice for 3D now, unless you're working for a company that already uses something else. (As an aside, I don't use it much but really enjoy reading the release notes as they're well written, engaging and show how they're regularly delivering real value.)

Don't want to seem like I'm being down on open source - I'm not, it's genuinely a beautiful thing, but I would love to see more innovation and not just copying existing things. Or maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places, like someone complaining about how there's no good new music but never listening further than top 40 radio.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#352

Post by wisty »

anothereng wrote: post #240
wisty wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're mistaken? The grammar translation method is seem as obsolete, but Duo isn't that. You don't learn rules formally (e.g. memorise explicit and formal rules on how to conjugate a verb in the past continuous tense, and what all these rerms mean) then apply them. If anything, people constantly complain about how Duolingo just gives them sentences and doesn't give long explanations about the grammar, you jus…

duolingo doesnt do grammar but it does translation. Unless you want to become a translator then theres no point in learning how to translate from language A to B. What most people want is to understand and speak which is a different skill than translation

So, like, learning to figure out what someone said, or say what they want in another language. Sounds a bit similar to translation. Saying it doesn't transfer can be claimed about anything. Talking 1:1 with a tutor isn't talking 1:1 with someone else, but it's a question of how much transfers.

Depends on the context whether it's a good task. Duo seems to aim for low friction and beginner level (A1 ish), high adherence / engagement. It's an app, they can't just say "read this text and think about it", feedback and assessment matter. They ab test like crazy, and have multiple task types, I'm guessing translation works in the real world for their purposes (low friction, app, beginner).

The received wisdom that translation bad comes from the pendulum swinging away from grammar translation.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#353

Post by SR2Z »

jcul wrote: post #333
hintymad wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Duolinguo tries to follow the input hypothesis. For instance, it barely teaches any grammar but simply asks its users to translate sentences. Unfortunately that's very ineffective. Compared to reading or watching live conversations, the amount of input in unit time on Duolingo is too little. In the meantime the sentences lack sufficient context for Duolingo users to build up intuitive understanding of phrases. Take D…

Yeah I think Duolingo is a great vocabulary expanded. But it's not going to get you to a conversational level.

Nothing but attempting actual conversation will get you to a conversational level of fluency.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#354

Post by amaccuish »

tossandthrow wrote: post #67
stevekemp wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck learning Finnish without understanding the grammar.

Good luck getting a 3 year old Finnish person lecturing you on Finnish grammar - Even though the kid can easily ask for a ice cream in both past, present, and future.

Weirdly enough, a 3 year old kid is not the same as an adult. The same learning methods do not necessarily apply.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#355

Post by runarberg »

doubleblind wrote: post #332
runarberg wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are interested I created an open source web app for learning kanji with SRS using open dictionary data. https://shodoku.app/ I am a year into learning Japanese my self, and kind of wanted to learn vocab and kanji at the same time (and also see example sentences for the vocab which I can put into my anki deck). My method is when I start a new kanji I pick a few words that contain that kanji, bookmark them (and…

Thanks for sharing, I'll check it out. I am currently using Wanikani +Tsurukame to learn Kanji, from your description your approach sounds similar with more customization? I just had a look at it, love that it also teaches the stroke order, this is something I have no tool for at the moment.

If you are happy with WaniKani, you should probably just keep using WaniKani. It is a fine app (though a bit pricey). But I talked about the difference a bit in another thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43839879

The gist of it is that I like studying vocab and components (radicals) at the same time as the kanji. I kind of swap out the on/kun-yomi reading practice with bookmarked vocab, if I can remember the pronunciation of a couple of words with the kanji, I mark it as good. I also think writing the kanji helps remembering it (although I‘m not strict about it; personally if I screw up the stroke order, or add an extra tail, etc. I still rate it as good). I am also a fan of self rating rather than input evaluation.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#356

Post by kobebrookskC3 »

joaohaas wrote: post #201

Cool... but nothing will ever beat Anki + Immersion. Here's one guide most Japanese learners follow: https://learnjapanese.moe/

i bet 99% of people will wash out of the 30 day routine, me being one of them. there are better ways to start than drinking from the firehose of "simple anime"

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#357

Post by DontchaKnowit »

sieve wrote: post #336
DontchaKnowit wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

learning spanish currently and I disagree on the grammer part. I never made any progress with spanish until I found a program that started with drilling all the grammer rules. after that my learning took off

In my experience, knowledge of grammar gives you a false sense of knowledge of language. You might know what the form of the word is, but you may not grasp its meaning in context, or be able to use it in your own sentences. Grammar is the analytical part of language. It is not the language itself. Try reading Spanish texts for a few days without doing these drills and you will notice a massive increase in relative co…

I agree with you but learning grammer gives you a scaffolding to understand, and allows you to freely construct sentances even beyond what youve previously encountered.

Obviously knowing grammer isnt going ti get you all the way there, probably not even 10 percent, but its a much much sturdier foundation than "donde esta la biblioteca", etc

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#358

Post by isaacremuant »

arghwhat wrote: post #317
isaacremuant wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This site is full of web developers telling people they get what they pay for but then call tutors "prohibitively expensive". You want that education, invest in it. With time and money. Of course, the "a few minutes per day in the commute for 9.99" feels attractive and it even gets you to a basic stage but then it's what we already discussed.

Private tutoring for 1 hour, 3 times a week at the current rates offered by local freelancers where I live would be ballpark 1000 USD per month for a long time. If you start nitpicking about quality and put in some more serious hours I wouldn't be surprised if you hit two grand. Language should not be reserved for people that can throw that kind of money monthly at their random hobbies, and suggesting that this is "…

I don't know what kind of hours and dedication that private tutoring is but you could do online classes with good tutors for way less than that.

You can't chase me with the "it's only reserved for people with money". There's ways to invest well and less than those numbers. Those numbers may not be bad either if you compare it with how much people invest in other types of education in the US, which I presume is what you're talking about.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#359

Post by gramie »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #12

Going to plug Language Transfer again, an excellent free app that is a much better way to learn a language than the DuoLingo approach.

I learned French, German, Sesotho, Japanese, with a mixture of classroom teaching and full immersion. I decided to learn Spanish with Language Transfer. It is by far the best system I have ever used (short of immersion; the absolute best way to learn Japanese was to fall in love with a Japanese woman in Japan).

I have been supporting it with monthly donations for about 4 years now, because I believe it is such an important tool.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#360

Post by gramie »

jcul wrote: post #338
simonbarker87 wrote: post #12

Going to plug Language Transfer again, an excellent free app that is a much better way to learn a language than the DuoLingo approach.

Yes! Language transfer is amazing imo. I found it here on hacker news and it's probably the most effective tool I have found for learning languages. For Spanish, over the years, I have taken formal immersive classes, finished the Duolingo tree and the reverse tree, spent time in Spanish speaking countries etc. My level of Spanish was good but clunky and I made a lot of mistakes. After finishing about half of the cour…

I used it for Spanish too, and it really gave me confidence. I went through the course once and was able to travel through rural Panama for two weeks. I plan to redo the entire course (total about 15 hours) soon, to freshen things up after five years.

I think it needs to be supported with other techniques (speaking to natives, watching Spanish TV or movies, etc.), but for taking in and understanding the language it can't be beat.

Post reply on HN