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I wrote to the address in the GPLv2 license notice (2022)

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Re: I wrote to the address in the GPLv2 license notice (2022)

#351

Post by bigstrat2003 »

ethbr1 wrote: post #166
NoboruWataya wrote: post #3

Not sure if it's being exaggerated for comedic purposes but it is interesting to me how alien the act of sending a letter by post is to the author. Granted I don't send them very often but I wouldn't think much of it if I had to. But I guess younger people and particularly those in tech may genuinely never need a reason to send a letter (or, it seems, write an address by hand).

Slightly alternate take: this post (and the fact that FSF still replies to paper mail) is about accessibility Which changes as times change. In the 90s, requiring access to the internet and an email address would have been exclusionary and decreased access. Now, 30 years later, it's reversed and physical mail is difficult. But from another perspective... the goal should be to ensure that anyone who wants to do a thin…

Physical mail isn't difficult, even now, for anyone with a modicum of competence. I can understand if someone hasn't used physical mail before, but it's very easy to look up how to send a letter + buy envelopes and stamps. If someone cannot do that without difficulty, they really need to work on their basic life skills.

Re: I wrote to the address in the GPLv2 license notice (2022)

#352

Post by cameronh90 »

Symbiote wrote: post #62
rafaelm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because in our countries (I'm also from S.America) the reliability of the post office is questionable at best, so it wasn't something I ever really used.

In most/all of Europe, letter volumes are reducing but they're still used. Even where email is common, letters are usually possible. In your country, - how do you get a new bank card, when the current one expires? - how are you informed about a change like a price increase for electricity? - how do you pay for electricity? (Knowing how much to pay, when etc) What about an elderly person?

I'm in the UK where we do have a generally very reliable postal service, but of those three, it's only the bank card that involves a physical letter for me - and even then I have no idea where my bank cards even are because I just use contactless via my phone/watch nowadays.

My electricity payment is direct debit - though I can pay manually via the app if I wish. The app has the amount on it, and they notify of service changes via the app and email. I suppose that if I ignored the electronic notifications they'd eventually send me a letter.

Even if you do get your statements by post, basically nobody here would pay for it by mail. If you really hate computers, you can pay over the phone, or set up a direct debit by phone/letter, or use a "PayPoint" - which includes most corner shops, supermarkets and post offices. It's also quite common for elderly people to just have one of their younger relatives manage it all for them.

Re: I wrote to the address in the GPLv2 license notice (2022)

#353

Post by bigstrat2003 »

petesergeant wrote: post #209
ryandrake wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not sure if it's being exaggerated for comedic purposes but it is interesting to me how alien the act of sending a letter by post is to the author. It was pretty recognizable as trolling--the very good and clever "old school Internet" style of trolling where it sounds plausible and sincere, but then you get done reading it and say, "Oh lawd, he got me! Good one!" The kind of writing that people used to spend a lot…

> I refuse to believe there are adults out there where things like using a pen to write and mailing a letter are alien concepts that need to be learned. Some adults were born in 2007

Anyone, even someone born in 2007, should know how to use pen and paper. This is a basic component of being an educated person, not knowing how to do that is as shocking as being illiterate.

Re: I wrote to the address in the GPLv2 license notice (2022)

#354

Post by Suppafly »

dheera wrote: post #298
Suppafly wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>12. Went to another USPS to drop the package You have a USPS drop box for tiny boxes in front of your house.

> house I can't afford a house ($2M+ where I live), so I don't have one of those mailboxes. My apartment complex doesn't have a visible USPS pickup anywhere that I know of. If you meant those inverted U shaped things that look like they are from WW2 (maybe WW1?), I forgot about those, but somehow I never know how frequently they are checked ... there is no indicator about when they were last opened and I wonder wheth…

>My apartment complex doesn't have a visible USPS pickup anywhere that I know of.

They usually a slot or little door for outgoing letters, if your package was larger than that, sometimes you can leave them at the 'office' of your complex if they have one. But yeah, in your case, going to an actual post office might have been the solution if you don't trust the street mailboxes.

Re: I wrote to the address in the GPLv2 license notice (2022)

#355

Post by SpaceNoodled »

grishka wrote: post #229
palata wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I am a millennial, so most likely older than the author. Not having envelopes at the ready is one thing, but ordering stamps... on eBay??? And then wasting a few envelopes because writing down the address is unusual? That kind of blew my mind. I am a software engineer, and I always have a paper notebook and a pen next to my keyboard to write down stuff. I guess this all tells me I'm getting old :-).

I'm also a millennial software engineer but I usually write stuff down to text files. I do use pen and paper to draw things if that helps my understanding of them. Like when there's geometry involved. Sending letters isn't an alien concept to me either. I'm old enough to have done it regularly as a kid. I especially liked the part where you have to write the zip code in those machine-readable digits.

When and where were you required to write the ZIP so strangely? I've never heard of such a bizarre requirement.

Re: I wrote to the address in the GPLv2 license notice (2022)

#356

Post by SpaceNoodled »

cameronh90 wrote: post #190
palata wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I am a millennial, so most likely older than the author. Not having envelopes at the ready is one thing, but ordering stamps... on eBay??? And then wasting a few envelopes because writing down the address is unusual? That kind of blew my mind. I am a software engineer, and I always have a paper notebook and a pen next to my keyboard to write down stuff. I guess this all tells me I'm getting old :-).

The author in the UK so it's pretty much a given that they're exaggerating for comedic effect, but... living in the UK myself, I have only sent maybe about 5 letters in my life, all to the government bureaucracy, and none more recently than a decade ago. And I'm a millennial, albeit on the younger side (so I tell myself). I don't have any pens, paper or a printer in my house, so I'd probably go to my workplace if I n…

It's bizarre to hear about people not even having a single pen, like the author. What's the last time you ever used one? What is your daily life like?

Re: I wrote to the address in the GPLv2 license notice (2022)

#357

Post by SpaceNoodled »

bongodongobob wrote: post #220
ryandrake wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not sure if it's being exaggerated for comedic purposes but it is interesting to me how alien the act of sending a letter by post is to the author. It was pretty recognizable as trolling--the very good and clever "old school Internet" style of trolling where it sounds plausible and sincere, but then you get done reading it and say, "Oh lawd, he got me! Good one!" The kind of writing that people used to spend a lot…

> I refuse to believe there are adults out there where things like using a pen to write and mailing a letter are alien concepts that need to be learned. Well, believe it. I'm in my 40s and haven't written a letter since I was a kid. Why would I ever have to? Ask someone who was born in 2003 if they've ever written and mailed a letter. 99% are going to say no.

There's a difference between writing a letter longhand, and simply knowing how to use a pen.

Re: I wrote to the address in the GPLv2 license notice (2022)

#358

Post by coldpie »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #263
programjames wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone born in 2003, I did this just last week when filing my tax returns.

You file tax returns by post? What country? Do they charge you extra to submit by post? That's crazy to me - tax returns for our micro-business and personal tax has been online since at least 2005.

In my state (Minnesota), there is no free online filing for state income tax. You either pay for one of the online filing softwares, or print the sucker out and mail it in. I choose the latter :)

Re: I wrote to the address in the GPLv2 license notice (2022)

#359

Post by immibis »

terinjokes wrote: post #306
ndiddy wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some companies still do this mainly to make the GPL request process more annoying so fewer people do it. If you have to mail a letter with a check to cover shipping/handling and wait for the company to send you a CD-R with the code on it, fewer people will look at the code compared to if the company just put it on Github or something.

If the goal is to be annoying, sure make sure folks can jump through hoops. I just don't think in 2025 a company legitimately intending to satisfy the GPL requirements needs anything to do with physical mail, since they'll provide it online. I stopped putting in requests for source code offers because I've had a 0% success rate.

Companies don't legitimately intend to satisfy the GPL requirements.

If you put in a source code request and get no reply you should try to contact the copyright holder or someone like the Software Freedom Conservancy or the EFF, because they are breaking the law. There was a case recently in Germany where a court forced a maker of home routers to give up not just their source code, but also the scripts to install modified software - as required by the license. (As I understand it there is no precedent in a civil law system, but it does mean at least one judge believes Tivoization of GPLv2 software is illegal)

Re: I wrote to the address in the GPLv2 license notice (2022)

#360

Post by ethbr1 »

samspot wrote: post #285
ethbr1 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slightly alternate take: this post (and the fact that FSF still replies to paper mail) is about accessibility Which changes as times change. In the 90s, requiring access to the internet and an email address would have been exclusionary and decreased access. Now, 30 years later, it's reversed and physical mail is difficult. But from another perspective... the goal should be to ensure that anyone who wants to do a thin…

A common mistake in accessibility is to assume accessibility is mostly for users who are blind. I've rarely seen the opposite approach, calling something accessible that is very much not accessible to a person who is blind. A url is much more accessible for many people with disabilities than the postal mail. Even if you mean access instead of accessibility, presumably a person who can find a way to acquire stamps can…

accessibility: the quality of being able to be entered or used by everyone, including people who have a disability
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