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Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

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Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#351

Post by fransje26 »

dachworker wrote: post #267
iammjm wrote: post #118

Europeans were perfectly happy to buy American tech und military exports, thus earning U.S. money and making EU technologically and politically dependent from the U.S. - it really was perfect for the U.S. But the US decided that it was actually a BAD DEAL and they wanted to extort even more money and dependence from EU. So now EU is investing in their own tech and military, thus reducing the amount of money US is get…

There is a weird attitude among European elites where on the one hand, they point out how European countries have always been in a subservient position within the American sphere of influence, but then, instead of cheering that this era is ending, they seem to be all upset about it and want their collar to be put back on. Help me understand this. To me it seems that maybe the interests of EU elites differ from the in…

> instead of cheering that this era is ending, they seem to be all upset about it and want their collar to be put back on.

> Help me understand this

The answer is money.

All the get-rich-quick schemes/scams are coming from the US. For a very current example, look not further than Tesla vs Volkswagen valuation.

That level of dollars valuations that are completely detach from reality, and the capacity of getting real, tangible, value out of the scheme before it collapses as a house of card, is orders of magnitude above what you can get elsewhere in the world.

Hence the elites want to continue having access to that market, domestic market be damned.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#352

Post by dmos62 »

epolanski wrote: post #236
dmos62 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I liked a comment by Sarah C. Paine, about how Communism is a really great system for taking power from within a state (think Mao), and then staying in power, but it's horrible for generating prosperity. When evaluating the choices of certain people, it's clarifying to not think in terms of prosperity, but, rather, power. I think there's a case to be made about Trump seeing advantage in making enemies of his politica…

The same Sarah Paine that speaks about how China lifted 1B+ people out of poverty and created tens of millions of millionaires?

Sarah C. Paine, the professor of strategy and policy at the U.S. Naval War College. I'm not aware of what you're talking about.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#353

Post by amarcheschi »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #302
amarcheschi wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people i know (except for the tankie ones such as my high school philosphy professor, that guy was goat) would have preferred a less abrupt usa exit and not one that potentially puts europe security at risk. I do not know enough about the elites to talk about it tho

I don't support Trump, but you really can't claim that Europe wasn't warned here. Russia first invaded Ukraine back in 2014. And here's Trump back in 2018, warning about German dependence on Russian gas, and stating that Europe needed to step up defense spending "immediately": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu57D9YcIk0 This has hardly been "abrupt". Even Obama and Bush were telling Europe to step up defense spending…

Honestly, Trump has said so many things that you can probably find everything and the opposite of everything coming out of his mind.

Yes, I do agree that we had been warned and since the Ukrainian invasion defense budgets of European countries increased. I also think such an abrupt change of mind from the US hurts both sides and nobody earns anything from it. Except Russia.

Even if European cointries increased spending before, the situation is changing in such a way that even nuclear weapons - something that almost no European country would have wanted if they already hadn't had them - are being taken into consideration to be developed as a nuclear umbrella from France towards other European countries.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#354

Post by dcow »

flowerlad wrote: post #235
gherkinnn wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not by HN crowd Maybe not the HN crowd (though that is debatable, there is no homogenous group here) but a seizable amount of the SV rulers have endorsed him.

SV billionaires did vote for him yes, but not HN crowd.

There are more Trump supporters here than you probably realize. They just aren’t ones to wear their political affiliation as a badge for approval, and aren’t as loud, generally.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#355

Post by nodoll »

moooo99 wrote: post #341
whiplash451 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unclear how this EU momentum will stand the test of time, even if the war in Ukraine were to stop quickly. Where do these 800 bn really come from, how fast they will transform into R&D and products, how much the industrial status quo is going to change? These are hard questions that remain unanswered.

> It's unclear how this EU momentum will stand the test of time, even if the war in Ukraine were to stop quickly. I don’t think it really is unclear. The war in Ukraine served as an initial trigger that did spark some notesble changes. But the trump administration even more so. Ask the former UdSSR and Warsaw pact states. They were sounding the alarm bells for a long time and don’t appear to be willing to take any ch…

>Government deficit.

And where does that come from? Obviously, it should come from the people of the country or its natural resources.

But we don't like to say that, do we?

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#356

Post by whiplash451 »

olieidel wrote: post #327

Help me understand this: European companies have already been interested in choosing for European alternatives instead of AWS, Azure, etc. for years . Sure, this interest has recently gone up significantly, but it already was there, especially in the area I've been working in (hospitals / medical devices). But here's what I can't wrap my head around: Why do the European alternatives suck so much? - Pretty much all cl…

It's the trillion dollar question that get discussed on HN a lot. My intuition:

- Private $ market: EU is decades behind the US in private capital management and the appetite for risk. In the US, it is not uncommon to raise $20M on an idea. In the EU (at least until recently), you'd raise literally 10X less.

- Piling effect: companies grow quickly by selling their product to the previous generation of growing companies: internet -> mobile -> cloud -> AI. Each wave feeds the next one, all currently centered in the US.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#357

Post by mschuster91 »

whiplash451 wrote: post #336
criley2 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both are a good thing? Even from folks in America who strongly dislike the fascist leadership, you'd be hard pressed to find folks who think "Europe should underfund their military and rely on the American tax payer for defense" or "Europe should be uncompetitive in technology and just buy American and Chinese solutions" I don't understand why Europeans have to blame Trump for "spending a fair minimum on their own de…

> rely on the American tax payer for defense Not sure how much that's true. EU spends billions buying US military hardware such as the Reaper. It's unclear how the story will end up for US taxpayers here.

> Not sure how much that's true. EU spends billions buying US military hardware such as the Reaper.

The thing is, West Germany alone had about 3000 tanks at the end of the Cold War, and reunified Germany nowadays has 300. Navies and air forces have been run to the ground across Europe, even the nuclear forces of UK/FR are nowhere near what they had once been.

The expectation over the last decades, especially after the pacification of the Balkans, was that open war would not return to Europe any time soon - on the one side because almost all European countries were either members of the EU, EEA or Schengen and thus were likely to more integrate instead of going back to 19th century fiefdom wars, and on the other side because the only realistic opponent was Russia... which we thought we could handle by "peace by trade".

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#358

Post by whiplash451 »

mmarian wrote: post #337
olieidel wrote: post #327

Help me understand this: European companies have already been interested in choosing for European alternatives instead of AWS, Azure, etc. for years . Sure, this interest has recently gone up significantly, but it already was there, especially in the area I've been working in (hospitals / medical devices). But here's what I can't wrap my head around: Why do the European alternatives suck so much? - Pretty much all cl…

Because people don't care that much about where their software comes from. They just want the best product available, and more often than not it comes from the States. This is a global phenomenon - Americans didn't care about TikTok being a Chinese company either.

This alone does not explain why new leaders do not emerge from Europe.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#359

Post by defrost »

tsimionescu wrote: post #331
defrost wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between UK farmers voting numbers for Brexit and the general UK population voting numbers for Brexit was ~ 1% .. within the margin of error and shows that farmers overall voted much as the general UK population did. Given the smaller absolute number of farmers, their vote carried less significant weight than many other blocs. ~ https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fv... ~ https://w…

That only matters if Brexit was about as bad for the direct personal interests of farmers as it was for the average Brit. If farmers had it far worse after Brexit than the average Brit, then it means farmers were especially dumb for voting against their own interests.

My comment above was written in response to an earlier version of the comment above it.

That original version was phrased as to blame farmers for the plight of Brexit, as if a small group who voted more or less in line with with the nation made any kind of difference.

Did farmers have it far worse after Brexit than the average Brit?

My understanding is the nation as a whole suffered, with the exception of well off Brits with significant off shore assests.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#360

Post by fransje26 »

tored wrote: post #322
jjevanoorschot wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An important distinction is that US and EU interests aligned on many important areas up until recently. So it was less of a subservient relationship, and more of a mutually beneficial one. Now that the US wants to turn it into a subservient relationship, the EU is naturally looking for other options.

No, Europe is a de facto vassal state to US since WW2. What Europe didn’t understand or didn’t want to understand was the US agenda differs from Europe agenda , always has. But now they start to wake up facing this reality.

> What Europe didn’t understand or didn’t want to understand was the US agenda differs from Europe agenda , always has.

France would disagree with the "didn't understand" part. They have been continuously ridiculed for holding that view, until very, very recently.

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