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Global sales of combustion engine cars have peaked

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Re: Global sales of combustion engine cars have peaked

#351

Post by ehnto »

oblio wrote: post #344
tonyhart7 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Having no car at all should be viable and we should build toward that." Yeah its sounds great until you need mass transport system to support this idea which means only mega cities can benefit the most when tier 2 and tier 3 cities is having a hard time investment see: japan

See: the Netherlands. Or Switzerland, for counterexamples. If anything, properly built small cities and towns are actually even better for public transit, since they're small. You don't need to cover a lot of ground. Heck, everyone talks about self-driving taxis. Self-driving trains and buses, that's where it's at, actually. A decent chunk of the cost (and limitations) for public transit is the need for human drivers…

> If anything, properly built small cities and towns are actually even better for public transit, since they're small. You don't need to cover a lot of ground.

Agreed, with the caveat that everything is crazy expensive now so smaller cities struggle to afford to build even a small amount of rail. We had excellent public transport in the 1900s, it was torn up for the automotive revolution, and now we can't afford to put even a 10th of it back. We struggle to put an extra station into an existing line, let alone new lines.

One of the big issues is that property is so expensive in the modern west that buying up the land to build is prohibitively expensive. The old game of private rail companies making money off property around public transit stops isn't working here at least, because property is already so unaffordable, there's no room for price growth.

Re: Global sales of combustion engine cars have peaked

#352

Post by conductr »

littlestymaar wrote: post #176
conductr wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not so much of a problem due to the average daily drive being a fraction of range. So long as you can charge at home, city life is fine for electric cars.

Maybe if you live in suburban single family house, but not if you live “in cities”.

I'm in US and most of our cities are mainly comprised mostly of suburban single family houses, but even if you don't live like that, you could also easily seek out a weekly/biweekly charge station and cover most of your needs. The problem comes with long range drivers and charging station availability concerns

Re: Global sales of combustion engine cars have peaked

#353

Post by oblio »

ehnto wrote: post #351
oblio wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See: the Netherlands. Or Switzerland, for counterexamples. If anything, properly built small cities and towns are actually even better for public transit, since they're small. You don't need to cover a lot of ground. Heck, everyone talks about self-driving taxis. Self-driving trains and buses, that's where it's at, actually. A decent chunk of the cost (and limitations) for public transit is the need for human drivers…

> If anything, properly built small cities and towns are actually even better for public transit, since they're small. You don't need to cover a lot of ground. Agreed, with the caveat that everything is crazy expensive now so smaller cities struggle to afford to build even a small amount of rail. We had excellent public transport in the 1900s, it was torn up for the automotive revolution, and now we can't afford to p…

What they could do, if the political will is there, would be just to build lots of bus lines. The lanes for sure are there and buses are much cheaper. You can run a lot of bus lines for 1 tram/light rail/metro line.

Re: Global sales of combustion engine cars have peaked

#354

Post by HPsquared »

ehnto wrote: post #350
HPsquared wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my regional UK city, most of my trips look something like: X minutes by car/taxi (although driving you need to park, and taxi you need to wait), 1.5-2X to cycle (direct but need to contend with hills, rain and much increased risk), and 2-4X to use public transport (total time, door-to-door, need to rush to get the thing and wait outdoors for 5-10 minutes) (2X being the ideal case of home to centre, 4X for point-to…

Your experience matches mine here in Australia, and it's fine justification for why we don't take public transport, but not why there shouldn't be more and better public transport. I would much much prefer to be taking a train from nearby into the CBD as it is faster point to point, more predictable and less stressful. The trouble is I live too far away from a station so every train journy starts with 30 minutes of c…

I agree it's something that would be nice, but it's so far away - decades at the current rate. We can't even build housing in the UK, never mind infrastructure or industry.

Re: Global sales of combustion engine cars have peaked

#355

Post by bArray »

hristov wrote: post #347
bArray wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is very strange to see a grayed out comment on top of a thread that has about 160 non-grayed out comments. I thought that highest rated comments go to the top and grayed out comments are rated below zero. I don't mind, I have internet points to spare. I think it's more important we have a proper discussion in this place. > Regarding your points. First the thing about used evs not selling has more to do with the…

What internet points do you have to spare? What are these points that let your posts be on the top even though everyone is voting you down. I always had doubts that HN is taking some sort of bribe to force disliked and false posts into people's attention, I did not know they made it so obvious. So where do you pay to get your HN posts to the top? Let me know, I have some ludicrous opinions I would like to promote too…

> What internet points do you have to spare? What are these points that let your posts be on the top even though everyone is voting you down. I always had doubts that HN is taking some sort of bribe to force disliked and false posts into people's attention, I did not know they made it so obvious.

Just to be clear, "I have internet points to spare" refers specifically to the loss caused by downvoting. The point is that I don't care to be downvoted, I don't say things to be popular, I am far more interested in the fruits the discussions lead to.

> I will not respond to the rest of your post, your arguments have deteriorated from being simply false to being incomprehensible.

Sure, make up a conspiracy about why my comment is nearer to the top and disregard my actual points by claiming they are all false anyway. It's great to have these kinds of well structured discussions here on HN.

Re: Global sales of combustion engine cars have peaked

#356

Post by LoganDark »

forgetfreeman wrote: post #330
LoganDark wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my jurisdiction it's literally illegal to make a right turn without ensuring the bike lane is entirely clear. Not to say that legality has ever dictated driver behavior, but what happened definitely wasn't just me impeding traffic.

Allow me to stress my total lack of support for motorist behavior. I rode a liter bike for a number of years and got so inured to motorist-induced near-death experiences that I wouldn't even comment to my coworkers on the days only a single driver tried to kill me on either my morning commute or when I left the office for lunch. I get it, but getting it doesn't change attitudes, aptitude, or attentiveness of the othe…

This is weird. What am I supposed to do, ride my electric scooter on the sidewalk? It has a top speed of 45mph.

I obey traffic lights just like everyone else, I don't just get in front of people randomly. Though of course, that doesn't stop people from deciding to shove the side of their vehicle into me.

Re: Global sales of combustion engine cars have peaked

#358

Post by troymc »

troymc wrote: post #36
umeshunni wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make any sense. There are 10s of millions of newly middle class consumers in Asia.

Maybe that's true, but maybe the average cost of a new car in Asia is quite a bit lower, so the overall effect is still declining total overall sales (measured in USD)? Here's a fascinating video about a city in China that's full of cute electric cars that cost less than $5000 USD each: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AomxytSwrkY

I looked around some more and it seems that it is, in fact, the total number of units sold that peaked, not the total dollars of sales.

I found a good video that outlines all the reasons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsXxfx_UsVI

Re: Global sales of combustion engine cars have peaked

#359

Post by forgetfreeman »

LoganDark wrote: post #356
forgetfreeman wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allow me to stress my total lack of support for motorist behavior. I rode a liter bike for a number of years and got so inured to motorist-induced near-death experiences that I wouldn't even comment to my coworkers on the days only a single driver tried to kill me on either my morning commute or when I left the office for lunch. I get it, but getting it doesn't change attitudes, aptitude, or attentiveness of the othe…

This is weird. What am I supposed to do, ride my electric scooter on the sidewalk? It has a top speed of 45mph. I obey traffic lights just like everyone else, I don't just get in front of people randomly. Though of course, that doesn't stop people from deciding to shove the side of their vehicle into me.

I kinda feel like we're arguing the same side here. There aren't good options available to you if you're on a scooter.

Re: Global sales of combustion engine cars have peaked

#360

Post by LoganDark »

forgetfreeman wrote: post #359
LoganDark wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is weird. What am I supposed to do, ride my electric scooter on the sidewalk? It has a top speed of 45mph. I obey traffic lights just like everyone else, I don't just get in front of people randomly. Though of course, that doesn't stop people from deciding to shove the side of their vehicle into me.

I kinda feel like we're arguing the same side here. There aren't good options available to you if you're on a scooter.

I feel like if you are arguing the same side, it's really hard for to tell since you also talk about how cyclists are trolling you by choosing to impede traffic instead of just getting a car. But otherwise yeah, scooter clearly has risks.
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