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U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

wsj.com

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Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#351

Post by ModernMech »

bradhe wrote: post #112
DidYaWipe wrote: post #88

The USA stands in miserable disgrace.

Amazing to see Russia win the Cold War—one we didn’t even know we were in. Their propaganda network is so strong that it took 3 weeks to go from “Russia is the enemy” to “eh, we have other problems” amongst the folks who…subscribe accordingly. Absolute masterclass in projecting power in the digital age.

Some of us knew we were in this information war, and we've been fighting it for 10 years. Remember in 2016 when Trump colluded with Russia to with that election? And everyone who knew what was going on at the time said Trump and Putin were allies? Those people were mocked incessantly for a decade. Authors like Seth Abramson predicted what's happening now years ago, just by treating the facts seriously, and for that he was treated like a crazy person.

I mean, they were caught meeting with a Russian spy in their campaign HQ, told us they got most of their money from Russia, and then told us for 10 years we were being crazy conspiracy theorists by claiming they were aligned with Russia. It's not a hard puzzle if you have the pieces.

So hearing today that "this is such a surprise" is especially frustrating, because this has been the topic of congressional reports written by Republican , impeachment trials, DOJ reports, reports from federal agencies, warnings from the FBI, CIA, and also international intelligence agencies. People like Christopher Steele correctly called this a decade ago and he was demonized. Australia brought it to the attention of the FBI.

Like... people knew this was happening, and warned, and not just nobodies like people on the Internet. What happened over the last 10 years is that Russia won the information war, and the general public decided to trust Russian state media over Democrats when it came to Trump's support of Russia. Which, I think at long last we can all admit this is the case without calling anyone a conspiracy theorist yeah?

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#352

Post by throwaway48476 »

wewxjfq wrote: post #345
throwaway48476 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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As all conspiracy theories, this provides a simple explanation to circumstances that otherwise require complex answers, but it holds no water. The KGB was ineffective and inept. It didn't reach the masses, it didn't influence public opinion. Of course a former KGB agent selling his story must tell you otherwise, but most of these guys spent their whole career feigning successes to their superiors.

While they may feign success to their supervisors you need to look at the tangible results. They got germany to shut down their nuclear power plants and got the civil rights act passed. That's not ineffective.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#353

Post by maratc »

speff wrote: post #331
maratc wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've searched the text of the Memorandum[0] for that promise and couldn't find it there. Can you help? [0] https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/P...

Point 4 > ... seek immediate UN Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine ... if they should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used This seems like the passage which would cover it. The UN is able to authorize use of force by member states against the aggressor. Though it looks like it hasn't done that - probably because of Russi…

I've read that point, and in my view it contains an obligation to call for a UN Security Council meeting and to seek a certain action by it.

The GP said:

>> The memorandum also said they would provide assistance

The memorandum does not contain an obligation to "provide assistance". "Providing assistance" and "seeking UNSC action" are very different things.

>> they are not keeping that promise.

They are not keeping promise to "provide assistance" because they have never made that promise.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#354

Post by belter »

Richard Nixon on Soviet Union

“We must be ever watchful when dealing with regimes whose actions have often betrayed their promises.”

Ronald Reagan

“I call the Soviet Union an evil empire.”

George H. W. Bush on Russia

“The history of deception and coercion reminds us that trust is never given

lightly—it must be earned and continuously verified.”

George W. Bush

“We call on Moscow to immediately cease its aggressive actions and respect the sovereignty of its neighbors. We cannot afford to trust a regime that repeatedly flouts international norms.”

Donald Trump

“I have great respect for Putin.”

I have a very good relationship with him [Putin].”

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#355

Post by Aunche »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #278
bradhe wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing to see Russia win the Cold War—one we didn’t even know we were in. Their propaganda network is so strong that it took 3 weeks to go from “Russia is the enemy” to “eh, we have other problems” amongst the folks who…subscribe accordingly. Absolute masterclass in projecting power in the digital age.

US spends trillion in vietname,iraq,afghan etc while people can't afford housing,healthcare and living paycheck to paycheck its hard to care for other people when your basic needs is not fullfill

The reason Americans can't afford healthcare or housing isn't because we spend 3.4% of our GDP on military spending, but decades of terrible policy. Americans have the second highest disposal income in the world, only behind a tiny tax haven. And before anyone mentions it, it measures the median, is PPP adjusted, and takes into account social services.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#356

Post by unethical_ban »

jisnsm wrote: post #192
DidYaWipe wrote: post #88

The USA stands in miserable disgrace.

I can imagine the very same thing being said if the USA had pulled out of the War on Terror. B-but they have WMD! The NYT said so!

Rarely do I see a commenter who blames Ukraine for the war, explain their position or elaborate on what the next 5-10 years of geopolitics will look like.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#357

Post by DidYaWipe »

master_crab wrote: post #281
rayiner wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no “propaganda network.” America has a president that overthrew the GOP leadership by destroying Jeb Bush over the Iraq War: https://youtu.be/H4ThZcq1oJQ?si=ZawKMFFY3LmAhYMr . After the mistakes of the last two decades, there is little appetite in America to do anything in foreign countries americans can’t find on a map beyond empty virtue signaling.

Leaving aside the Iraq war discussion for a moment (that war, by the way, was America’s Pickett’s Charge, the high tide of the US) it’s amazing remembering how anti-Trump the Republican crowd was. A complete world of difference from today.

Their hypocrisy knows no bounds. They hate electric cars, but all of a sudden the guy who popularized them is a hero.

Zelensky is invited here and shows incredible restraint and decorum only to be shouted down and vilified. Meanwhile, Netanyahu comes over here and CHASTISES Congress for not delivering weapons FAST ENOUGH. This after we've propped up Israel's apartheid regime and filled warehouses with weapons for decades.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#358

Post by unethical_ban »

riehwvfbk wrote: post #317
ponector wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also you can donate directly for the kamikaze drones here: https://www.sternenkofund.org/donate They are extremely effective in countering russian troops. One drone costs as little as 500$

[flagged]

Rarely do I see a commenter who blames Ukraine for the war, explain their position or elaborate on what the next 5-10 years of geopolitics will look like.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#359

Post by insane_dreamer »

lifestyleguru wrote: post #336
insane_dreamer wrote: post #34

Hesgeth is sending an extra $4B to Israel (in case anyone thinks this is about saving money).

America in unable to sustain such active support for two countries simultaneously, so it's picking Israel. Israeli lobbying is much more far-reaching than European so American attention is shifting there. EU has 3-4 years to ram up but its leaders are the same self-absorbed as Trump (only less big mouthed), so in 3-4 years Europeans will have to absorb whatever Putin will come up with.

Except that one one country is resisting invasion by its bigger bully neighbor that is killing its civilian population, while the other is the bigger bully neighbor killing a civilian population and reducing it to rubble.

A pretty clear indication that America stands on the side of the aggressors and doesn’t give a fuck about you know ordinary people being killed. Shameful.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#360

Post by egberts1 »

Justsignedup wrote: post #344
egberts1 wrote: post #339

People would say Budapest Memorandum give Ukraine the rights to its 2,000 Soviet nuclear weapons. That's not what it said. People would say that the same memorandum says Ukraine security is absolute. Not that either. People would say in 2014, US installed new Ukraine government via propaganda. Looks dubious too. People would say Ukraine shut down 11+ political parties who opposed current Ukraine government; some part…

Just so you know. The Ukranian constitution states no elections during war. All political opponents have come out and said we will hold elections after victory. Nobody is against postponement. Ukraine has had healthy consistent elections since the Russian backed government was booted out.

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