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Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

bbc.com

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Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#351

Post by cmrdporcupine »

sleepyguy wrote: post #6

It was as if they invited him to the Whitehouse to set him up for a lecture and scolding. They had no intention of anything other than humiliating him in front of the world. It's shameful what our administration has done.

Only American MAGA supporters saw Zelensky being humiliated.

Anybody else saw Vance and Trump humiliating themselves. Showing the intellectual and emotional capacity of a middle schooler to the world while a man whose people are suffering occupation and mass casualties and deals with death every day just looks stunned.

To anybody with critical thinking skills it feels like Trump & Vance are talking about a TV show or video game. Completely disconnected from reality. Horrifying and shocking level of narcissistic immaturity.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#354

Post by GenerocUsername »

akmarinov wrote: post #344

So at this point obviously the US pulls all support from Ukraine - weapons, intelligence, the works. Any negotiations US-Russia will be useless as the US won’t represent anyone with a stake in the war. They don’t have people, territory, anything at stake, they don’t get refugees and generally aren’t directly affected in any way. What are the chances that they just leave Ukraine, Europe and Russia alone from now on an…

Despite all the rage in these comments, the base of the right largely views this as best possible outcome.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#355

Post by duped »

seydor wrote: post #82

It looks like the US wants a regime change in Ukraine, it's possible that this became a pre condition from russia for talks to go forward. OTOH, a minerals deal with the US ensures that the US will have a stake in defending the postwar ukraine. Lots of drama and optics involved for sure, but it seems the outcome or the talks was predetermined JdVance will not last for long - is there procedure to replace him?

> JdVance will not last for long - is there procedure to replace him?

fwiw, the President cannot fire the VP. The Vice Presidency is an independent political office.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#358

Post by brickfaced »

All President Zelensky had to do was say "thanks for your support" and have the hard conversations behind closed doors. Instead he tried to use high-pressure negotiating tactics in front of the cameras, on Donald Trump of all people. This was clearly a mistake, and now his diplomatic incompetence and lack of basic gratitude and respect will cost Zelensky and his country dearly.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#359

Post by kajecounterhack »

GMoromisato wrote: post #270

I would like to know what the alternatives are. None that I can think of are palatable: 1. Support Ukraine enough so that Russia doesn't take too much more territory, but not enough for Russia to feel threatened and escalate the war. This was the Biden plan and it sounds like what Europe wants. I just don't see how this ends the war. Is this just buying time for someone to depose Putin? 2. Support Ukraine enough so i…

> Support Ukraine enough so it can take all its territory (maybe minus Crimea). This may not be possible with weapons alone. This might require a NATO no-fly zone over Ukraine, which effectively makes us a combatant. I actually would support this path, but the downsides are all too obvious.

It _is_ possible with the combo of weapons and economic sanctions. Ukraine (had) more economic support, so it is both a war of blood and endurance, endurance which Ukraine could have by being a porcupine with next-gen weapons and non-stop bleeding for Russia until things start hitting the oligarch's pocketbooks too far and the people of Russia begin to demand regime change.

Russia is a glorified gas station. You can hurt it dramatically with economic sanctions because its whole GDP is concentrated into one sector.

Imo if Trump really cared about America's long term security, he would be trying to fund research into cheaper / easier to produce next-gen weapons for Ukraine to test for us, instead of complaining how much our HIMARS and tanks currently cost, firing top military brass, cozying up to a dictator, and trying to exploit a ravaged democratic ally.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#360

Post by casperc »

hayst4ck wrote: post #141

The American government has been compromised by Russia. It no longer represents American interests, but Russian interests. Whether the senior powers in America are compromised, complicit, or opportunist, it doesn't matter. America is being damaged. Russian interests are being prioritized over American interests. Our military is too powerful for direct conflict, so alternative conflict against our political structure…

I might also mention elections being compromised. It is another clear target for Russia with an extremely high payoff. Feel certain they have not managed to hack the election?
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