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New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

washingtonpost.com

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Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#351

Post by legitster »

krainboltgreene wrote: post #339
legitster wrote: post #323

> The two sides negotiated until late Sunday. The sticking points in recent days were over whether they could get a “just cause” provision in their contract, which means workers can be terminated only for misconduct or another such reason; pay increases and pay equity; and return-to-office policies. This seems like a LOT of issues that still need to be hammered out. It would be one thing if they were disagreeing abou…

It seems extremely bad taste for you to comment on the situation like this with such little insight. Like do you even have any union negotiation experience? Monday morning quarterbacking is always so tacky.

> Like do you even have any union negotiation experience?

I spent 3 years working for a professional union negotiator. I don't know everything, but I feel like I have a bit more insight into how the sausage gets made.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#352

Post by miltonlost »

gruez wrote: post #328
dfxm12 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The default for the US is "at-will employment", which means that your employer can fire you at any time, no reason needed. The definition of "just cause" would be collectively bargained, so both management and the union will understand and agree on what constitutes just cause or not. FWIW, layoffs are regulated differently from firings.

>The default for the US is "at-will employment", which means that your employer can fire you at any time, no reason needed. That seems... fine? In most transaction neither party needs to give "just cause" to terminate a contract. Imagine having to give documentation to move out of your current apartment, for instance. Getting fired is disruptive to someone's finances that some notice/severance would be justified, but…

>>The default for the US is "at-will employment", which means that your employer can fire you at any time, no reason needed.

>> That seems... fine? In most transaction neither party needs to give "just cause" to terminate a contract.

You like having a sword over your neck at all times that an employer can just swing and take away your salary and your health insurance for any reason at all?

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#353

Post by aranelsurion »

xnx wrote: post #143
tsunamifury wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this comment made every time by hacker news people? “I run my basement website with in my spare time? Why can’t one of the most popular websites in the world run on gum and a few paper clips”

Fair question. Having not worked at an organization like the New York Times, I really don't know. 5 people would obviously be too few, and 2,000 people would be too many. Hacker News handles a huge amount of traffic to dynamic pages with basically zero (by comparison) technical maintenance. Twitter (though not doing well as a business) was overloaded with tech employees.

> Hacker News handles a huge amount of traffic to dynamic pages with basically zero (by comparison) technical maintenance.

Hacker News isn't exactly the kind of website for many millions of Internet users to engage with. Its interface and features work well for the kind of niche it serves, which is much smaller compared to many other websites. HN (at least the user-facing parts) seem to run on mostly the same code for years, where NYT likely needs to build many interactive, one-off features for the flavor of the day topic.

> Twitter (though not doing well as a business) was overloaded with tech employees.

I read this a lot and maybe it has a truth to it, though I remember before the Great Layoff of 2023 there was a time when Twitter was trying (and AFAICT often failing) to grow its business. One example is that they've tried (and failed) short-form videos way before Tiktok started. Today's Twitter seem to be in maintenance mode, and operates with less people.

Maybe it was 'overloaded' in the sense that it was the kind of business that could never grow and shrinking it down to the size where it can be profitable and squeezing it hard was the way to go, that I cannot know.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#354

Post by keybored »

johndhi wrote: post #31
bwestergard wrote: post #3

I am also a member of the union at NPR, on the subway headed to the picket line in solidarity right now. Happy to answer any questions. I encourage everyone to respect the picket line and get your news elsewhere until the workers get a deal. The Times Workers are holding the line against arbitrary return to office mandates and for Just Cause protections. The vast majority of HN consists of developers, designers, QA,…

Good luck. I'm curious what you feel about the following: These days news publications generally have a pretty weak business model and a lot of competition. Does it still make sense to have a union in this case? Why?

Does it still make sense to have a union while there are jobs? Yes.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#355

Post by bojo »

legitster wrote: post #323

> The two sides negotiated until late Sunday. The sticking points in recent days were over whether they could get a “just cause” provision in their contract, which means workers can be terminated only for misconduct or another such reason; pay increases and pay equity; and return-to-office policies. This seems like a LOT of issues that still need to be hammered out. It would be one thing if they were disagreeing abou…

> Striking during election week is kind of a crappy move to pull.

That sounds like an anti-union stance to me.

There's no better time to strike than when your opponent can't afford to look bad.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#356

Post by kortilla »

mellosouls wrote: post #238
randomdata wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the article doesn't make clear what the issues with it are? What is not clear? The article tells that the issues are contention around return to office policies (as your quote tells, change is planned for July) and wanting a “just cause” provision.

But it's a reasonable offer, there is no clarity in the article about exactly what is so bad they need to strike. Eg if they said we haven't had a pay rise for ten years, that would provide context. Nothing in the article gives a justification for a strike. That's not to say the justification doesn't exist but it's not remotely elucidated.

They don’t think RTO is reasonable, which is a completely logical stance to take if you’ve setup your life working from home (esp if it’s hours from the office).

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#357

Post by drawkward »

legitster wrote: post #345
cool_dude85 wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's crappy about the union striking when they have leverage? Should they have waited until the strike would apply less pressure to their employer?

1: If a union strikes when it has too much leverage, there's a risk there as well at overplaying the hand. If the Times does just fine during the election, then the union helps make the case their members are overrated. If the Times crashes and burns during the election, they might make the value of the contract weaker. 2: In an election where trust and reliability of independent media are really being called into qu…

1: i suppose we will have to wait and see whether it was a crappy or smart move.

2: i suspect that it is not the NYT readers who are fretting about media credibility. By definition, they already believe in the system.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#358

Post by whywhywhywhy »

consteval wrote: post #237
gruez wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can’t help but think those people don’t understand that $100k is very much the new $45k of the 2000s, and has much less purchasing power than the latter did at the time. False. $45k in 2005 is only $73k today, when adjusted for inflation[1]. Even if you use the most generous interpretation of "2000s" to mean 2000, that's only $82k. [1] https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

This doesn't account for the fact that cost of living doesn't rise at the same rate everywhere. You can't just use national statistics for this. It's entirely possible that in NYC the cost of living went up more than 2x since the 2000s.

It's remote work though, why would they live in NYC.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#359

Post by gruez »

miltonlost wrote: post #352
gruez wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The default for the US is "at-will employment", which means that your employer can fire you at any time, no reason needed. That seems... fine? In most transaction neither party needs to give "just cause" to terminate a contract. Imagine having to give documentation to move out of your current apartment, for instance. Getting fired is disruptive to someone's finances that some notice/severance would be justified, but…

>>The default for the US is "at-will employment", which means that your employer can fire you at any time, no reason needed. >> That seems... fine? In most transaction neither party needs to give "just cause" to terminate a contract. You like having a sword over your neck at all times that an employer can just swing and take away your salary and your health insurance for any reason at all?

Did you stop reading there and not the subsequent sentence?

>Getting fired is disruptive to someone's finances that some notice/severance would be justified

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#360

Post by datavirtue »

yoyohello13 wrote: post #331
legitster wrote: post #323

> The two sides negotiated until late Sunday. The sticking points in recent days were over whether they could get a “just cause” provision in their contract, which means workers can be terminated only for misconduct or another such reason; pay increases and pay equity; and return-to-office policies. This seems like a LOT of issues that still need to be hammered out. It would be one thing if they were disagreeing abou…

> Striking during election week is kind of a crappy move to pull. That’s leverage. Striking during a time when the business doesn’t care is a dumb move.

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