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Jaywalking legalized in New York City

theguardian.com

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Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#351

Post by benj111 »

dathinab wrote: post #187
gxonatano wrote: post #87

Let's not forget that jaywalking was essentially created by the automotive industry and its lobbyists, to make life more convenient for drivers. It started in car-heavy places like California, and eventually became a law virtually everywhere in the US, but was never really enforced in New York City, where most people walk or take public transit, rather than drive. If, like most New Yorkers, you walk several kilometer…

>New Yorkers don't have a concept of "jaywalking"; it's just "walking." It's also not a word in the German language at all, it's just "crossing the road". If you do it safely grate, if you don't not grate and if there are children nearby unsafe road crossing is really something you shouldn't do, especially it it's just because you are to lazy to walk a small bit more (I think crossing a road close by a pedestrian cro…

Not in the UK either.

My assumption for the first 30+ years of my life, after watching US films was that it was something akin to walking while looking suspicious.

I find the differing conceptions of 'freedom' interesting. The US likes to think of itself as more free, but they can't even cross the road.

PS fyi, its 'great'. 'grate' sounds the same, but that means a thick metal grid, typically on the floor, or as to grate cheese.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#352

Post by anon373839 »

david-gpu wrote: post #295
pokeymcsnatch wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No law is going to physically protect you from a 2 ton hunk of steel.

Not so sure about that one. Commercial drivers are involved in collisions less frequently, and the more stringent licensing requirements (i.e. a law) are probably helping with that. Drivers knowing that they will get away with mowing down a pedestrian so long as they say they didn't see them is also going to encourage dangerous driving. Most importantly, laws that promote safer street designs make a massive differenc…

> Drivers knowing that they will get away with mowing down a pedestrian so long as they say they didn't see them is also going to encourage dangerous driving.

This is silly. Nobody thinks this. ”Mowing down a pedestrian”, even if one has a perfect legal defense, would be incredibly traumatic even for the driver. Traffic rules ought to be engineered with practicality (physics, the limits of human cognition and visual perception, etc.) paramount.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#353

Post by spcebar »

bitwize wrote: post #339
spcebar wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be talking about the intersection of Boylston and Tremont (if you went to a school by the common you know this light well). As a pedestrian it's a shitty light because of those drivers you're describing, as a driver it's a shitty intersection because the only time you can make the left turn is while pedestrians have the walk light, and that intersection is always so jam packed with people that you can wait…

I'm talking about many such intersections throughout Boston Metro, including the one you mentioned. The Boylston-Tremont intersection has the nice feature that walk signals appear in both directions at once, which I interpreted as license to cross diagonally.

Fun fact about that intersection vs many intersections. Most intersections around Boston will give pedestrians the walk light automatically on a cycle, and the "push to walk" buttons don't actually affect the cycle. At that intersection, you do need to press them to get the walk cycle. I once stood there for several cycles thinking how clever I was for knowing that the walk sign goes on automatically, staring at someone else across the intersection who was also standing there thinking how clever they were knowing that walk signs go on automatically before we both realized we were idiots and finally hit the walk button.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#354

Post by SomeHacker44 »

nobody9999 wrote: post #337
lolinder wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you live in NYC? Anecdotally, when I go out there for business events the locals invariably suggest walking if the distance is ~1 mile or less. Do that there and back and you've hit 3 km walked on a single event.

>Do you live in NYC? In Manhattan at least (this is different elsewhere in NYC), as a general rule, 20 city blocks (going from 44th Street to 45th Street is one city block) is approximately one mile. Three Avenue blocks (e.g., from Fifth to Sixth Avenues, etc.) is also approximately one mile. Walking ten blocks (~800 meters/~1/2 mile) to do just about anything is pretty normal, and walking further is pretty common to…

I have always used four Manhattan avenue blocks as a mile... As a life long born NYC'er. Not three.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#355

Post by zahlman »

lolinder wrote: post #343
zahlman wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Toronto, Canada. I would have expected our culture to be less car-centric, if anything.

You'd expect that if you assume that US cities are all pretty similar in their car-centeredness, but NYC and LA couldn't be more different in this respect.

Interesting. What happened to effect such a difference?

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#356

Post by fooker »

mc3301 wrote: post #257
fooker wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Germany, Japan, there is strict social compliance There is quite a bit of historical evidence for this being really bad for society.

How're those places of low compliance doing recently?

Not great compared to places with obedient people.

Freedom can understandably clash with progress.

Imagine how much economic progress the world would have made if the axis had won the second world war. I hope I have made the point.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#357

Post by olyjohn »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #288
stratocumulus0 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time, a great deal of pedestrian crossings is not marked for cars at all, and only at most hinted towards for pedestrians. Sometimes there is a small pedestrian crossing sign painted on the road facing the sidewalk, sometimes there's just a slight decline in the curbside on both sides. I guess that this is some legal loophole to give cars priority, since legally they have to stop if someone wants to cross…

Laws vary. In Washington every street corner is an unmarked crosswalk, where pedestrians have priority. Many drivers don’t know this, of course.

Neither do most pedestrians. Let's be real, most Washingtonians don't know most of the traffic laws. This state really badly needs better education in that sense.

Most people also don't know that you're not supposed to enter a crosswalk when the "DONT WALK/red person" is blinking, or the countdown timer is running. It is supposed to be treated like a yellow. Finish crossing the street, but do not enter the crosswalk. Though I suppose that stepping on the gas is how drivers treat a yellow also!

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#359

Post by explodingman »

shkkmo wrote: post #324
wahern wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet jaywalking accounts for the majority of pedestrian deaths, despite being a fraction of the number of crossings. Believe it or not, most drivers do look out for pedestrians. Some better than others, but another set of eyeballs is invaluable, especially from the actual car that risks hitting you. Unfortunately, drivers do not expect people to cross in the middle of the street. And they never will, generally spe…

> And yet jaywalking accounts for the majority of pedestrian deaths, despite being a fraction of the number of crossings. This is simply false. While most pedestrian deaths happen on open roadways (with a 3:1 ratio), that isn't the same thing as jay walking. Indeed, most of these fatalities involve people on the side of the road, usually in the dark. Most pedestrian deaths happen at night. This is when it is easiest…

Good reference. Thanks!

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#360

Post by nobody9999 »

SomeHacker44 wrote: post #354
nobody9999 wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do you live in NYC? In Manhattan at least (this is different elsewhere in NYC), as a general rule, 20 city blocks (going from 44th Street to 45th Street is one city block) is approximately one mile. Three Avenue blocks (e.g., from Fifth to Sixth Avenues, etc.) is also approximately one mile. Walking ten blocks (~800 meters/~1/2 mile) to do just about anything is pretty normal, and walking further is pretty common to…

I have always used four Manhattan avenue blocks as a mile... As a life long born NYC'er. Not three.

I'm a native NYer too. And three was generally the rule of thumb AFAIK.

That said, as we both know, avenue blocks are of varying lengths. So depending on which avenue blocks we choose, we're probably both right and both wrong at the same time.

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