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How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

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Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#351

Post by rkangel »

dartos wrote: post #50
Taek wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its just fun. "Okay wth, today we're going to make the entire base solar powered" When making software that's supposed to be used, you can't mess around that much. At the end of the day, someone has to use it and if its weird it'll be bad. But in Factorio? Nobody is using it so sure, make it bizzare. Change the rules, let yourself go. Don't test the design just send it. Bored? Too challenging? Don't bother finishing…

> When making software that's supposed to be used, you can't mess around that much. At the end of the day, someone has to use it and if its weird it'll be bad. This makes me sad. You don’t need to make software for mass appeal. Git is weird and bizarre (especially when initially released), but it’s used and well loved.

> Git is weird and bizarre

The core of Git is incredibly simple and elegant (content addressable database). It's an amazing approach to how to represent the data that needs representing.

The UI is the challenging bit, and that's because Linus just slapped something on to demonstrate it, expecting that a proper UI would be built over the plumbing he'd created.

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#352

Post by freediver »

thoroughburro wrote: post #291
earnesti wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not find git weird and bizarre at all. First time I hear such nonsense. Why do you feel that way?

It’s amazing you haven’t heard negative criticism of Git, before! It’s widespread. https://kagi.com/search?q=criticism+of+git

Or this (used share search feature in Kagi, which works for everyone)

https://kagi.com/search?q=criticism+of+git&r=us&sh=-Tk-oKViO...

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#353

Post by TheRealPomax »

satvikpendem wrote: post #35

I know lots of people who play Factorio but for me, I guess it just feels too much like work? Whenever I play it, I get the distinct feeling that I could instead do the same thing but productively instead, such as by contributing to my OSS projects (sometimes, maybe even for profit instead). I never got into these types of programmatic games for precisely this reason but I'd like to understand other perspectives on t…

This is why Satisfactory works for me, but factorio doesn't: even though it's supposedly also a factory buildering, it's really much more of a world exploration game that happens to have factory building, but you don't have to build "a perfect factory" to get anything done, or unlock things that let you explore better. I can just throw down some buildings and link them up haphazardly and that strategy kind of works all the way up to near-enough-to-the-end to keep the game a fun running/driving/flying with occasional bouts of production line management, rather than feeling like I'm just doing work that a computer could do way better.

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#354

Post by szundi »

archerx wrote: post #302
satvikpendem wrote: post #35

I know lots of people who play Factorio but for me, I guess it just feels too much like work? Whenever I play it, I get the distinct feeling that I could instead do the same thing but productively instead, such as by contributing to my OSS projects (sometimes, maybe even for profit instead). I never got into these types of programmatic games for precisely this reason but I'd like to understand other perspectives on t…

I feel the same way, I was building something in a game 10 years ago and I thought to myself, “I’m putting all this effort into this game and at the end I won’t really have anything to show for it and this feels like the same energy I use when programming, let me program instead”. This thought changed me from someone who plays games to someone who makes games. The only real game I find entertaining and fun these days…

If this is coming from the feeling that you’re not useful in the meantime - pretty curse that has positive effect on your pro life as a benefit. Makes me miserable though.

In the meantime I always could choose between similar joys based on future professional benefits like programming vs gaming. Factorio is like programming so for me I play it whenever I can with my friends (aka almost never), but otherwise I am programming

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#355

Post by vl »

satvikpendem wrote: post #35

I know lots of people who play Factorio but for me, I guess it just feels too much like work? Whenever I play it, I get the distinct feeling that I could instead do the same thing but productively instead, such as by contributing to my OSS projects (sometimes, maybe even for profit instead). I never got into these types of programmatic games for precisely this reason but I'd like to understand other perspectives on t…

I felt same way after playing bunch of American Truck Simulator. Why I’m doing this? I can just go and drive real car instead!

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#356

Post by [deleted] »

satvikpendem wrote: post #35

I know lots of people who play Factorio but for me, I guess it just feels too much like work? Whenever I play it, I get the distinct feeling that I could instead do the same thing but productively instead, such as by contributing to my OSS projects (sometimes, maybe even for profit instead). I never got into these types of programmatic games for precisely this reason but I'd like to understand other perspectives on t…

[deleted]

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#357

Post by talldayo »

Kiro wrote: post #311

I don't agree with "Factorio is like work". The grind is no different to me than playing Diablo. It feels like a comparison that programmers love to tout because it makes for a memeable and relatable story but at its core it's just like any other gameplay loop.

> The grind is no different to me than playing Diablo.

On the surface, I guess. But Diablo is a game about dungeon crawling and Factorio is a game where you make the dungeon. You aren't looking for good loot rolls to make your character better in Factorio, you're trying to reassemble the pieces of a poorly-designed infrastructure network to make it efficient enough for your goals.

Really there are so many types of programming that Factorio's proximity to your day-to-day work will vary on the field. If you are a frontend web designer, then Factorio will probably feel pretty fresh and novel to you. If you're an SRE/SWE that rips apart musty codebases to see what's salvageable, Factorio's loop of refreshing and optimizing can feel eerily similar in some respects.

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#358

Post by MaxikCZ »

armada651 wrote: post #326
aniviacat wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m putting all this effort into this game and at the end I won’t really have anything to show for it You will have something to show for it: Joy. If your only interest is to invest effort into producing something that provides some kind of physical value, then of course work will be more interesting than games. Development has fun parts and it has tedious parts. The tedious parts are what usually makes for a good…

> Development has fun parts and it has tedious parts. The tedious parts are what usually makes for a good product. Factorio removes that part; because it is not about producing a product, it's about having fun. Factorio also has tons of tedious parts. It really isn't all that different in that regard in my experience. There are many games these days that are designed to have a certain element of tediousness (grind) i…

> Factorio also has tons of tedious parts. It really isn't all that different in that regard in my experience.

I would say that the only boring part is before you get bots. Then your role shifts from builder to designer. All the tools given to you (ctrl+c/x, up/downgrade planners, rail autocomplete, ...) just make building effortles, and most of your time is spent in design, analyzing and debugging your factory, while the changes are done for you as you work.

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#359

Post by johnisgood »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #43
Xeronate wrote: post #7

The article mentions one of the main appeals of factorio is you get to think like a programmer without bosses/overhead from actual work but it’s always been hard to get into games for that reason because I could just work on a side project with the same result. I really don’t understand the appeal.

Factorio is more fun than any side project. While it hits a similar area of the brain as programming does (the problem solving zone), it's definitely not the same.

That is debatable. I get more satisfaction from working on a side project that I know matters in the real life, outside of the gaming scene, and it is fun working on it myself, and the same thing applies here: no bosses, deadlines, etc.

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#360

Post by bicx »

bugfix wrote: post #342
Kiro wrote: post #311

I don't agree with "Factorio is like work". The grind is no different to me than playing Diablo. It feels like a comparison that programmers love to tout because it makes for a memeable and relatable story but at its core it's just like any other gameplay loop.

To me, it starts to feel like work when I have to rebuild large parts of my factory because I didn't leave enough space to expand. This process feels exactly like having to refactor a bad codebase (where you feel the urge to just start from scratch). If you plan your build properly, you can avoid this, but it takes a few runs to learn the best strategies.

Factorio makes me realize that I don’t really like solving problems for the sake of solving problems (or optimization, for that matter). I like solving them for a tangible reason or because I I’m making someone’s life better.

Problem solving and optimizing in Factorio is different than a grind in some game like Diablo. That sort of grind uses a completely different part of your brain (movement and in-the-moment decision making), and I find that I need that kind of change after a week of real-life problem solving.

I imagine people who gravitate to Factorio are probably better problem solvers and optimizers than me because that’s what they truly enjoy for its own sake.

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