Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

404media.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 379 posts

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#351

Post by RealityVoid »

throwaway290 wrote: post #260
pas wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's even worse. it's not theirs (it's the users'), they are merely hosting it and using it (ToS gives them a fancy irrevocable license I guess). so they can do whatever they want with it and the actual owners/authors have no chance to really influence Reddit at all to make it crawlable. (the GDPR-like data takeout is nice, but ... completely useless in these cases where the value is in the composition and aggregatio…

actually owners/authors like me would not want our stuff crawlable because that gives up our ownership. When I am answering some random dude on reddit with a problem I want that dude to read my solution. I don't want this to be crawled and forever stored (probably deanonymized) or enshrined in a dozen commercial LLMs. There is substack for that stuff.

I'll be honest... I don't care about this thing. I view public posts as something that belongs to the public domain and if that is searchable, all the better, other people can reach my post. And if that is what LLM's are trained on, also, great, I hope it will be useful to some people. What I _do_ care about is an even playing fields and access to _all_ llms to be trained in that data.

In the end, I view potential AGI's as a common consciousness brainchild.

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#352

Post by nsonha »

account42 wrote: post #318
shit_game wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their license/Eula clearly state that Reddit has perpetual whatever to content posted on Reddit, but relying solely on DMCA for "stolen" content _yet again_ feels like a terrible way to deal with non-original content. Part of me hopes that Reddit gets hit with some new precidence-setting lawsuits regarding non-original content that requires useful attribution, but I double t that will ever happen.

An EULA does not change the morality of the situation anyway. They are a leech profiting off users generating content who are now upset about not getting a cut from third-parties also profiting from said user generated content.

> a leech profiting off users

can also say every humans are leech benefiting off free software (creators) and complaining about their worthless chitchat, barely usable because of its basic semantics, being "stolen".

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#353

Post by j5155 »

nsonha wrote: post #352
account42 wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An EULA does not change the morality of the situation anyway. They are a leech profiting off users generating content who are now upset about not getting a cut from third-parties also profiting from said user generated content.

> a leech profiting off users can also say every humans are leech benefiting off free software (creators) and complaining about their worthless chitchat, barely usable because of its basic semantics, being "stolen".

1. That’s kind of the point of free software, is it not? If you don’t want people “leeching” off of your software for free, don’t make it free. 2. Reddit is an amazing source of coding information and general Q&A on an extremely wide variety of topics. I would not characterize all of it as chitchat.

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#354

Post by lopis »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #279

"If you use Bing, DuckDuckGo, Mojeek, Qwant or any other alternative search engine that doesn't rely on Google's indexing and search Reddit by using "site:reddit.com," you will not see any results from the last week." The veracity of this statement is questionable. I found at least four web search engines not using Google's index that produced results from the last week. Example: Recent eruption at Yellowstone Black…

Ecosia does use Google or Bing, which you can select in the settings.

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#355

Post by throwaway290 »

RealityVoid wrote: post #351
throwaway290 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

actually owners/authors like me would not want our stuff crawlable because that gives up our ownership. When I am answering some random dude on reddit with a problem I want that dude to read my solution. I don't want this to be crawled and forever stored (probably deanonymized) or enshrined in a dozen commercial LLMs. There is substack for that stuff.

I'll be honest... I don't care about this thing. I view public posts as something that belongs to the public domain and if that is searchable, all the better, other people can reach my post. And if that is what LLM's are trained on, also, great, I hope it will be useful to some people. What I _do_ care about is an even playing fields and access to _all_ llms to be trained in that data. In the end, I view potential AG…

OK. I see "AGI" as a buzzword and current ML trend as exploitation of creative works that profits big tech. They will always have bigger computers and get more out of what we create increasing wealth gap, unless we stop it

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#356

Post by lopis »

dev1ycan wrote: post #196
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Up until 2016 (I think, +/- 1 year), if you could remember 3 uncommon words in a comment, you could find any reddit post instantly on Google. I'd want to follow up on a thread from weeks ago, and it was magic. Number one result. Then one day that just stopped working, and even adding site:*.reddit.com didn't fix it. At the time, I think, I didn't realize that it was mostly Google's fault, I thought maybe Reddit had c…

it's so bad it's crazy, you can legit not find stuff on the internet anymore, it's the same with youtube, I search something and get like 20 or so results and then everything else is hidden. it started when youtube removed the ability to search for videos older than 5 years, if I had to guess? cost saving, have every old video in cheaper storage... but it sort of fragments youtube, every couple of years you only get…

Youtube will show me 3 results, tops, that are relevant to my query, then start showing irrelevant recommendations.

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#357

Post by pas »

throwaway290 wrote: post #355
RealityVoid wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be honest... I don't care about this thing. I view public posts as something that belongs to the public domain and if that is searchable, all the better, other people can reach my post. And if that is what LLM's are trained on, also, great, I hope it will be useful to some people. What I _do_ care about is an even playing fields and access to _all_ llms to be trained in that data. In the end, I view potential AG…

OK. I see "AGI" as a buzzword and current ML trend as exploitation of creative works that profits big tech. They will always have bigger computers and get more out of what we create increasing wealth gap, unless we stop it

Social support (or we can even call it "[corporate] social responsibility") is a political question/problem/thing.

Endless iterations of the discussion about how copyright should/shouldn't be are meaningless without considering the larger social context.

The vast majority of creators (artists!?) are not compensated at all, and the users' (content consumers'? the public's?) attention is already 100% fully saturated.

So GenAI chrurning out more kitsch hardly changes that. (It got popular when it was novel, and ... that was it for now. And it became one more brush in the evergrowing workshop.)

And if/when a company creates a product out of it, then that product needs to be scrutinized and we should consider the ethical, social, and political problems. (Because ... politics is a blunt tool whereas ethics is as infinitely nuanced as we make it, whereas actual social considerations ought to be pragmatic and fair.)

And that's the problem. Users benefit from cheaper access to customized content. (In other words, arguably it's a net positive thing that they can - for example - ask some GenAI tool to make them a nice picture for their friend's birthday.) So what's the cost of this? Does it make some people jobless? Is that good or bad? (Is it good that plant breeding programs, fertilizers, tractors, and irrigation systems made a lot of agricultural workers jobless? Well, in some sense yes as allows a few people to feed many, freeing up time for others to become doctors and artists. In some sense bad, because our current socioeconomic system does not provide real social support - despite enormous redistribution of GDP. [Because brutal inefficiencies in allocation of that surplus. And that's again a political problem.])

... and of course here the status quo bias leads to "technological progress chipping away at inefficiencies" in a capitalist reality translates to "even more things get commoditized", and that in turn in the current shitty socioeconomic system equals "lots of externalities are not priced in, and lots of people are forced to drastically change their lives to adjust to new prices" (ie. price of their labor and/or products going down, so they need to change jobs, yet they barely get any support for doing so) ... and of course ethically it's bad that most people virtually uncritically accept and enjoy the results of progress (new products and services) without giving a fuck about the costs.

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#358

Post by throwaway290 »

pas wrote: post #357
throwaway290 wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK. I see "AGI" as a buzzword and current ML trend as exploitation of creative works that profits big tech. They will always have bigger computers and get more out of what we create increasing wealth gap, unless we stop it

Social support (or we can even call it "[corporate] social responsibility") is a political question/problem/thing. Endless iterations of the discussion about how copyright should/shouldn't be are meaningless without considering the larger social context. The vast majority of creators (artists!?) are not compensated at all, and the users' (content consumers'? the public's?) attention is already 100% fully saturated. S…

> Users benefit from cheaper access to customized content. (In other words, arguably it's a net positive thing that they can - for example - ask some GenAI tool to make them a nice picture for their friend's birthday.)

very arguably yeah. we evolve to where we push a button and get a birthday present. the logical conclusion is a system that does not even require to push a button. this is the opposite of the original point (spend time and effort making something to show you care). so to me it is not benefit, it is harm.

maybe you picked a bad example. but the examples of legit benefits of this tech, they don't turn into harms if you really analyze it and go to the root, are hard to find in consumer land.

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#360

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

elashri wrote: post #343
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sincerely appreciate the diligence. I really did see Pinterest results over a longish span. I may well have only noted their presence and not their absence - skewing my perspective. Overall, my experience is very positive. I'm on many PCs throughout the day and I miss Kagi when it isn't there.

Pinterest serves pages in many domains (different TLDs). It is better to use a regex to block them.

I would if Kagi could. I blocked them all manually.
Post reply on HN