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No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

robkhenderson.com

351–360 of 600 posts

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#351
post #108

We expect young men to grow up and become "husband material". Due to various changes (standards for husbands rising, economic opportunity diminishing), this goal has become clearly unreachable for many. I would opt out if I was a poor young man today, and focus on enjoying the small pleasures (drinking with my buddies, playing PS5). The hill they are expected to climb is ludicrous, and I am not surprised they respond…

I'm gay and probably slightly autustic so for me the very natural goal of having a partner is indeed unreachable. The society doesn't give me any other goal to pursue, so I'm stuck just smoking weed and watching YouTube, which is depressing.

I know plenty of gay people and autistic people in relationships. Get off the internet and touch grass.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#352
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

workforce in usa seems pretty good. Have you seen the homeprices they are able to afford ?

I don’t think you have grasped the catastrophic damage the housing crisis has done to trust in the western economic system. At this point younger generation would put the CCP in charge in they knew they’d fix housing. And they would.

You're on point on this. It is the largest upheaval of things since the industrial revolution. The idea that most adults would work 9-5 with weekends off in a job that could be stable for years has not been the standard historically. People would work seasonally, fixed employment was rare unless you were a slave or a serf.

Right now today, and for the past decade, the reality is that two employees doing the same work for the same company for the same pay can have totally different living standards. For one of the employees, maybe half or more of his salary goes to rent, what's left after living expenses he tries to save for a down payment. For the other of the employees, his full time job is not even his main source of income. His main source of income is his home increasing in value every year by more than what he makes from working. He keeps all of his salary after tax, because he doesn't pay rent. Maybe a small fraction of his income goes to pay for the last scraps of an ancient mortgage on his home.

For the business employing these two people, it is the same. They pay the same salary, get the same output from their employees. They can't do anything about outside factors if they want to treat their workers fairly. This is also why they think "young people don't want to work" and such.

The industrial (or post-industrial if you want to call it that) economy is built around labour. That is completely gone by now. Young people growing up knows that working is for complete suckers and that a person has made some major fuck up in their life if their income depends on working.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#353
Something that intend to write on someday that I'll excerpt here: the phenomenon of "young men with nothing to do" is driven by a society-wide misallocation of capital that is itself driven by wealth inequality - specifically, old people and elites who command too large a proportion of wealth. This concentration of wealth in the hands of a cohort that is less diverse, and has less diverse interests, than the general public concentrates investment and bids up the prices of common necessities while leaving nascent demand for other goods and services to languish, often unborn. This diverse set of would-be goods and services are the ones that would have employed many of the "shiftless" young men described (myself included). Instead, there are no ventures available with which to employ our skills, or the things we could have become skillful in; we're forced to compete with elite practitioners in the fields rich old people care to invest in or purchase from.

As TFA details, this is actually to the advantage of the aforementioned cohort - whatever particular shape a family takes (and it can be successful with queer parents, or one parent, or grandparents), its instability is useful when fighting advocacy for labor, community investment, and such. The energy expended in keeping things together at home can't be redirected against elite interests. That's why they take exception, not because one-dad-one-mom-one-boy-one-girl is the only way to successfully do-the-family.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#354

The author makes good points, but there is no mention of the demise of religion or the social factors leading to the dismantling of the nuclear family as causes.

Personally I am not religious and I don't get along much with my immediate family

Any solution that involves a prescribed push towards religion and family would be antithetical to my freedoms of religion and association

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was telling my wife about the loss of religion and how that leaves many people without without purpose. Religion is often a precursor to the cultural norms we live, without even being aware of. Sunday is for resting in the west for example. To find a reason to keep living is very hard and may entail an acceptance that all is for nothing and being content with that. Many people cannot walk that path or have deep anx…

The problem is that god is dead; we killed him and as far as I know, there is no way to bring him back.

What is so great about religion as a reason to live?

I want to live because life is fun some of the time and death is boring.

Isn't that what Nietzsche was saying about "God is dead"? Did either of us read the book itself?

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#356
post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm gay and probably slightly autustic so for me the very natural goal of having a partner is indeed unreachable. The society doesn't give me any other goal to pursue, so I'm stuck just smoking weed and watching YouTube, which is depressing.

Society gives you plenty of goals to achieve. Do you really believe pursuing a relationship is the only real goal you can work toward?

> Do you really believe pursuing a relationship is the only real goal you can work toward?

Yes, and I'm tired of pretending it isn't. I'm sorry I'm a human, not some higher being that exists above natural constraints of biological brain that spent millions of years evolving around the concepts of "be a member of a tribe" and "have a family".

My tribe will fire me the second I stop being useful to them by the way, so yeah.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#357

What I took away from this article is that many low-income men have no real interest in being fathers or raising children. Yet, they tend to produce children anyway. We should focus on making birth control more accessible, instead of trying to make people take responsibility for raising children they obviously don't want. That guy who spends all his money on weed and booze while his kids go hungry? He should have got…

It's called eugenics and was widely practiced in the 20th century against the exact people you propose.

Edit: Down vote as much as you want. Eugenics is the above. Doesn't mean I'm for or against it. It was promoted at the time as a way of protecting children from growing up with "unfit" parents.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#358
post #99

Many have not yet squared up to the fact that society itself is an unprofitable boondoggle that requires massive moral radicalization and willingness to participate in odd, polarizing institutions and practices. We live inside the semi-decayed skeleton of a society built by deeply religious people who believed that society should be built and maintained because that is the moral thing to do . They weren't only motiva…

> Take away the glory and meaning from the basic acts of living among your peers and you will end up with large swaths of people who do enough to get by, and not much more. This is exactly how I feel. Sure, my life is comfortable, but at the same time it's so small and pointless, which leaves me completely unmotivated. Why do anything if nothing matters.

Oh that. That's easy. Here's what you do for that:

Go to the store and get some loaves of bread, sliced meat and cheese, lettuce and tomato, mustard and mayo. Make sandwiches. Take them to people who do not know where their next meal is coming from and give them to those people.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm gay and probably slightly autustic so for me the very natural goal of having a partner is indeed unreachable. The society doesn't give me any other goal to pursue, so I'm stuck just smoking weed and watching YouTube, which is depressing.

I know plenty of gay people and autistic people in relationships. Get off the internet and touch grass.

Ah yes. Whenever someone asks me what can we do about poverty I'll just reply "I know plenty of people with lucrative jobs, get off the internet and touch grass".

We've been telling people for years already that them being lonely is their personal failure, not some systematic problem, yet people, on average, keep getting even more lonely. What makes you think that continuing to present loneliness as a personal failure will eventually solve the problem?

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#360

This article spells out the incentive structure that leads to low-status men underperforming. > Some of the jobs he can get don’t pay enough to give him the self-respect he feels he needs, and others require him to get along with unpleasant customers and coworkers, and to maintain a submissive attitude toward the boss. > The educated class decides cohabiting partnerships are just as valid and important as marriage. A…

> Some of the jobs he can get don’t pay enough to give him the self-respect he feels he needs, and others require him to get along with unpleasant customers and coworkers, and to maintain a submissive attitude toward the boss. Same as it always was. Or perhaps moving a factory workforce into the service industry has been degrading? (Since of course we shipped the factories overseas.)

Yes, some people have to be hands-on building the physical world or they will not be happy. And by unhappy, I mean constant nagging doubts of inferiority and uselessness. Eventually you are going to check out under those circumstances.

I have felt guilty my whole life working white collar, but I'm useful and people need and want me, so I get by.

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