Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

miamiherald.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 1001 posts

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#351

Post by vitaflo »

_heimdall wrote: post #194
greenchair wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

correction: anti-illegal immigrant platform. the 3rd worlder influx of criminals is negative for the country not positive.

What is and isn't legal immigration is always a moving target. A majority of US history included open borders where it was legal for anyone to get off a boat, provide some basic info, and go on to try and make their way here. The idea of closed borders, immigration caps, etc is relatively modern and driven more by the fact that social entitlement programs cost money than a fear of dangerous people coming here.

> A majority of US history included open borders where it was legal for anyone to get off a boat, provide some basic info, and go on to try and make their way here.

Unless you were coming off a boat from Africa. Lets not forget that slavery defined a large section of American history.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#352

Post by tstrimple »

AnarchismIsCool wrote: post #315
tonynator wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine being a European and not being allowed to defend yourself lol

I'm with you on this, but imagine being an American in prison for 10 years because you drilled a 1/8" hole .123" from the edge of a funny shaped piece of aluminum.

Way to invent things that don't happen to instill fear. Just more FUD.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#353

Post by hnpolicestate »

krapp wrote: post #296
hnpolicestate wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if * some* highly intelligent immigrants oppose American values? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. They may use their capital and ability to politically undermine our civil liberties. Most people globally aren't used to the American interpretation of free speech or gun rights. I don't want people coming here using their talents to politically remove my rights. I think this is a fair point to make.

>What if some highly intelligent immigrants oppose American values? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. They may use their capital and ability to politically undermine our civil liberties. That should be perfectly acceptable and within the bounds of free speech in a democratic society. It's up to you to counter "bad speech" with other speech in the marketplace of ideas. At least that's what I'm told when I complain ab…

You inserted their speech where I said "capital and ability". Because you support undermining those rights so you play semantic games.

I mean this sincerely, isn't the debate irrelevant? You either support those civil rights or oppose them. I don't want to put words in your mouth but I assume you oppose 1A and 2A. Why not just say it? We wouldn't have to waste time discussing ancillary nonsense.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#354

Post by vaidhy »

hnpolicestate wrote: post #284
labrador wrote: post #107

I support immigration and oppose the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. For example, in this article is about white collar crime, it points out that many Somali-Americans were professionals back in Somalia. I'm not concerned about the crime because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency unt…

What if * some* highly intelligent immigrants oppose American values? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. They may use their capital and ability to politically undermine our civil liberties. Most people globally aren't used to the American interpretation of free speech or gun rights. I don't want people coming here using their talents to politically remove my rights. I think this is a fair point to make.

Are American values static? If not, how did they change over time? Was it some group that used their capital and political organization to make the changes?

If so, why is it ok for one group to advocate for a change, but the similar advocacy from another group is not ok?

Just for introspection..

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#355

Post by agumonkey »

noduerme wrote: post #322
gottorf wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not concerned about the crime You may not be concerned about the crime, but many voters are. The author of the article you linked to also exhorts the Somali immigrant community to not engage in crime. > because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency until the 2nd and 3rd generation is able to make it into established society. History and data from various European nations suggest that some immigrant groups…

> various European nations [...] some immigrant groups American Jew here, who spent years living in France and Spain. I've heard the same polite euphemisms refering to Arabs and Gypsies from the mouths of members of the Front National. You know, before 1945 it was said in Europe that Jews weren't able to integrate fully with the host society. One might ask: Was that the Jews' fault? Or the host society's fault? It's…

Subtle topic. In France there were waves of italians and spaniards in the early 20th, it went bad for a short while and then became a non issue apparently (being born in the 80s, these groups were never causing trouble in the slightest). Sharing history probably helps too.

I also never felt any issue regarding Jewish people but considering this was after ww2 .. nobody would really say a thing either, but personally they never displayed anything noteworthy society wise. another non issue

Now it's African, northern African populations being at the forefront of news, but personally i had many more issues with them (and i'm partially brown so the chances of them thinking I'm too different are lower). regularly they displayed very low morals, aggressiveness, sudden high fanaticism toward religious principles they didn't really grasp, worse behavior in school.

My mother knew people from Asia (Vietnamese, Cambodians) fleeing from war, with no resources, not speaking french, nothing in common with Europe, they mentioned seeing some racism, yet they too ended up being a non issue. They end up being as the cliche quiet-asian-1st-in-class kid and that's the end of it.

It's possible France or other European countries have some underlying, hard to describe, notion of integration. It's less economical and more about mentality ? Maybe except UK, where it's often said that anybody will to work would rapidly integrate. I still can't say.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#356

Post by sensanaty »

vundercind wrote: post #27
wkat4242 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the US still have sanctions on them anyway? The missile crisis was 50 years ago. It's time to forgive.

A bunch of Floridians who are, or are descended from, folks who had their land and businesses seized during the revolution are holding grudges and won’t let go of them until they’re given their stuff back or a ton of money, which, this far on, isn’t happening. Florida is important in Presidential elections. US elections are structured such that dumb stuff like a relatively small—but loud—and also hopeless interest in…

Where does this plantation-owner story come from? How many plantation owners do you think existed?

And that still doesn't explain the continual drain happening, to this day, as is evidenced by this very article we're commenting on. What, are these 10% also filthy capitalists somehow?

As a Serb whose parents fled an eerily similar situation to Cuba's way back when for greener pastures to the literal other side of the planet, this thing where people blame the citizens rather than the worthless piece of shit government for fleeing these socialist hellholes is always an amusing one for me.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#357

Post by tstrimple »

tonynator wrote: post #298
torpfactory wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a very sizable number of low paying, dirty, dangerous, and/or boring jobs that we can’t find enough locals to do. Think farm hands, home care aides, meat processors, etc. Unskilled immigrants do those jobs because that’s what is available to them (I.e unskilled). If they weren’t doing those jobs, we’d have to pay significantly more for the goods and services that labor depends on. Immigrant labor is disinflat…

[flagged]

You're exactly the sort of person who also maintains that burger flippers don't deserve a liveable wage and that there's no such thing as a liveable wage outside of what the market dictates. You'll turn around and scream about inflation due to "highly paid Americans" picking fruit, and demand that something must be done about such outrages. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#358

Post by diego_moita »

epolanski wrote: post #178
kjellsbells wrote: post #137

The problem commonly skated over is that two views cam be true at once. For example: - the "Batista" regime was dictatorial and repressive. The people fought back with Castro. The first wave of people to land in Miami were essentially the moneyed class who lost everything. Unsurprisingly they hate the Castro regime and its descendents. The US government were happy to accommodate them under the guise of anti communism…

> the "Castro" regime is dictatorial and repressive. As someone whose family comes from the former Soviet union, and has friends that come from other repressive places let me tell you that this really doesn't matter. Economy and how you are doing are what matters in the day to day life of people. People really don't think about the oppression or lack of elections, they care how much they need to suffer to put food on…

I find it amusing how you just don't get it. Your narrow worldview is typical of everyone who comes from oppressive regimes and doesn't understand citizenship. The writer Svetlana Alexievich wrote a lot about this kind of alienation.

> Economy and how you are doing are what matters in the day to day life of people.

Yeah, but "economy and how you are doing" is inseparable from freedom and democracy.

You need the rule of the law and respect for private property to ensure a functional economy. You need transparency, freedom of information and speech, freedom of assembly and political representation to demand responsible government from authorities.

> The average Joe does not care about politics

That's how Putin screws up the average Ilich, and the Castros screw up the average Juan. See the connection?

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#359

Post by np- »

torpfactory wrote: post #183
pton_xd wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. Explain how unskilled illegal immigrants contribute to our success. I'm open minded but I've yet to hear anything convincing. No one is opposed to the legal immigration of skilled workers.

There’s a very sizable number of low paying, dirty, dangerous, and/or boring jobs that we can’t find enough locals to do. Think farm hands, home care aides, meat processors, etc. Unskilled immigrants do those jobs because that’s what is available to them (I.e unskilled). If they weren’t doing those jobs, we’d have to pay significantly more for the goods and services that labor depends on. Immigrant labor is disinflat…

I’m always deeply uncomfortable with this argument. It sounds like justification for a “slave” class to do undesirable jobs with no legal protections and sub minimum wage, just so Americans can save a few bucks at the supermarket. But at what moral cost? We can’t have it both ways—if they’re here working, then it needs to be at full American wage with full American regulation/oversight. But that itself defeats the purpose of hiring undocumented workers.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#360

Post by HideousKojima »

np- wrote: post #343
minicoz wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Because it’s functionally impossible to deport all “illegals” without massively disrupting legal immigrant communities? How exactly do you propose the illegal immigrant gestapo determine someone is here legally? Race? Accent? Stop every brown person on the street and ask for papers…? What don’t republicans understand by this

Or you could just... require proof of citizenship/legal residence for housing, jobs, etc.? No need for Gestapo checking papers.
Post reply on HN