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Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

independent.co.uk

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Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#351

Post by darby_nine »

charlesfries wrote: post #303
jcranmer wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chomsky, for some weird reason, chose to take Russia's side. Chomsky's foreign policy views can somewhat accurately be reduced to "everything is either American imperialism or reactions against it," to a degree that he ignores the imperialist tendencies (and other unpleasantries) of countries that aren't the US because they're against the US. For example, his denial of the Cambodian genocide essentially boiled down…

Christopher Hitchens on Chomsky and 9/11: "...it would be a credulous fool who swallowed the (unsupported) word of Osama Bin Laden that his group was the one responsible. An attempt to kidnap or murder an ex-president of the United States (and presumably, by extension, the sitting one) would be as legally justified as the hit on Abbottabad. And America is an incarnation of the Third Reich that doesn’t even conceal it…

[flagged]

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#352

Post by softsound »

crazygringo wrote: post #274
slantedview wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chomsky, for some weird reason, chose to take Russia's side. This is a mischaracterization. He explained Russia's stated motivation for invading Ukraine, that it felt threatened by NATO's continual eastward encroachment and breaking of promises not to do so. That's different than endorsing the invasion, which he did not.

The problem is that's a false narrative. There were never any promises, and Putin barely even cared that it resulted in Finland and Sweden joining NATO. Because Russia's stated motivation for invading Ukraine was never Putin's actual reason, which is basically an emotional desire for historical greatness by reclaiming Russia's lost empire, combined with war always being an excellent mechanism for staying in power and…

There are many many reasons for war, not just because Putin wrote a fancy paper long ago about his aspirin, or because the drought in Crimea was costing Russia tons of money since they took over and had their water cut off or the falling population and economy that purposely did not reinvest properly to keep Putin in power.

Giving a simple answer is not wrong if the long one takes much longer to explain. Multiple factors can be true, I'm sure Russia was uneasy that Siberia wanted to leave and with Ukraine gone they would have no direct access to water there. And the threat of China slowing taking over Russian land *with Russian permission of course*. Russia has attempted to do something even if extremely poorly miscalculated. That's kinda what Russia is known for, doing something and very often failing at it.

They have been lucky, sometimes clever but often terrible truly terrible at long term long planning. Ask their unpatriotic AI what it thinks, they will get mad about it too.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#353

Post by wruza »

objektif wrote: post #279
credit_guy wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I love Noam Chomsky so much. I don't. There are some things out there that are up for debate. But not Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Chomsky, for some weird reason, chose to take Russia's side. Edit: To be sure, I wish him full recovery and many more happy years. https://www.e-flux.com/notes/470005/open-letter-to-noam-chom...

Rather he chose to understand the point of view from their side. It is extremely difficult to do so and only a few public facing individuals is able to do ( Jeffrey Sachs etc. )

If he watched this narrative for two decades, he’d know the dynamics. What he understood instead is the official media position of the day, in which the bad guy is the main actor. That is still impressive for a foreigner, but of no use. Even a half brained dog can see through it here if lived long enough. Sadly our population is heavily handicapped in this regard because it was never exposed to rational argument, which itself is (IMO) the root of all our evils. All our opposition always sucked at politics and literally died out. Good politicians don’t die.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#354

Post by attentive »

hollerith wrote: post #314
CamperBob2 wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia is a nuclear-armed state. They have nothing to fear from NATO. They can never be invaded or conquered again, by anyone, ever. Except from within. Disagree? Answer my questions below, and explain exactly how you would go about attacking Russia.

>They can never be invaded or conquered again, by anyone, ever. Why does thinking about nuclear weapons cause most people to think in absolutist terms like this? Maybe Russia was counting on getting a 15-minute warning of ICBMs approaching, but if a hostile military can station missile right on their southwestern border (523 miles from the center of Moscow) their plan goes out the window.

this argument is nonsense. There is 365miles from Moscow center to border with Latvia, NATO member.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#355

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

darby_nine wrote: post #347
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's important which countries the experts are coming from. I don't think it's important to engage in prejudice based on national origin. > I just notice that a lot of non-Western countries seem to be at least undecided which narrative to follow 141 countries decided that Russia's aggression is deserving of condemnation and must stop: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembl... Additiona…

This doesn't seem to contradict Chomsky's take, who doesn't seem to endorse any kind of war or violence at all. Hence his take seems to be a critique on western behavior that seems fair and warranted.

You are correct, I was replying to our shared colleague xg15, not Chomsky. We were discussing the decisions of different countries around the world.

My post did not cover Chomsky's takes on the matter because, honestly, I have not read them. Not for lack of desire, just personal time and priority.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#356

Post by Log_out_ »

All that had to be said, was said. All that had to be said about saying, has been said. If the language of of said, is to be taken as a context free gramar defined by a tuple Y and the ruleset X, then the pumping lema for cf languages applies. Sayer said sad. [Mic Drop]

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#357

Post by jesterson »

credit_guy wrote: post #193
sitkack wrote: post #71

I love Noam Chomsky so much. To me he is epitome of what a rational caring intellectual should be. Number one, he strives for the truth and while can have intellectual blind spots, isn't afraid of calling them out. We had him has a guest speaker for an internal presentation at Google and of course we had some hyper-rational libertarian eastern block swe kid who was going to take him down and Noam was super respectful…

> I love Noam Chomsky so much. I don't. There are some things out there that are up for debate. But not Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Chomsky, for some weird reason, chose to take Russia's side. Edit: To be sure, I wish him full recovery and many more happy years. https://www.e-flux.com/notes/470005/open-letter-to-noam-chom...

> But not Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Chomsky, for some weird reason, chose to take Russia's side.

Taking sides is a sign of emotional, not intellectual approach. And Russia/Ukraine conflict is way far from good fighting evil simplified construct.

I don't like leftists in general and Chomsky in particlar, but I give him huge respect for intellectual and independent position, which will cause him losing appreciation from people like you.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#358

Post by pydry »

_djo_ wrote: post #247
pydry wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afghanistan did not knock down the twin towers. It actually offered to hand over bin Laden if the US provided evidence of his involvement and tried him in a neutral country. That wasn't good enough for the US, who were itching for a military invasion anyway, and were keen to build some military bases in a spot where they didnt yet have any. The idea that the US follows international law is a sick joke. The idea that…

You can’t seriously believe that. First, the Taliban ‘offer’ was so full of caveats as to be worthless and, most importantly, they refused to do anything about the rest of the Al-Qaeda organisation that they hosted and shared power with and which attacked the US. Putting Bin Laden on trial in some supposed neutral third country would’ve done nothing to remove the clear and present threat to the US that Al-Qaeda at th…

The caveats were exactly as I described and were entirely reasonable, but the US had a hard on for a military invasion and was not about to be stopped by such a trivial thing as due process.

Your idea that he should be handed over without question for trial does not follow any legal logic but is simply the logic of an imperialist.

The same logic is what led to the Hague invasion act, Guantanamo bay, the imperialist invasion of Iraq and, of course, the various attempts to push NATO further and further up against the more vulnerable parts of the Russian border.

As I said before, a Putin supporter would have broadly similar views to you - in reverse.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#359

Post by exe34 »

DSingularity wrote: post #276
dotancohen wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chomsky has very controversial opinions on some subjects and I suspect that precludes him being invited to many parties.

Probably precludes him from accepting the invitations. You cant be anti-imperialist and accept a dinner invitation where you will inevitably be forced to smile at and rub elbows with the same men you critique as war-criminals. The man is principled. I hope he recovers. He would be sorely missed.

> you will inevitably be forced to smile at and rub elbows with the same men you critique as war-criminals

I'm autistic, so I would smile and tell them exactly what I think of them. but fortunately I don't get invited to parties.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#360

Post by adastra22 »

credit_guy wrote: post #193
sitkack wrote: post #71

I love Noam Chomsky so much. To me he is epitome of what a rational caring intellectual should be. Number one, he strives for the truth and while can have intellectual blind spots, isn't afraid of calling them out. We had him has a guest speaker for an internal presentation at Google and of course we had some hyper-rational libertarian eastern block swe kid who was going to take him down and Noam was super respectful…

> I love Noam Chomsky so much. I don't. There are some things out there that are up for debate. But not Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Chomsky, for some weird reason, chose to take Russia's side. Edit: To be sure, I wish him full recovery and many more happy years. https://www.e-flux.com/notes/470005/open-letter-to-noam-chom...

Chomsky regularly and rigorously defends genocidal regimes. Look up "Cambodian genocide denial" on wikipedia and you'll find an entire section devoted to Chomsky. This isn't anything new, and I'm surprised how much sympathetic support he's getting in this thread.
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