Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

businessinsider.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 854 posts

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#351

Post by benreesman »

WalterBright wrote: post #346
thaumaturgy wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it might be time to turn back the clock a bit and revisit some of the things pg said way back when he was pitching Sam Altman to lead YC and the general reaction was "...who?" 2008: "You could parachute [Sam Altman] into an island full of cannibals and come back in 5 years and he'd be the king. If you're Sam Altman, you don't have to be profitable to convey to investors that you'll succeed with or without the…

> amoral wealth-hoarders They're not hoarding wealth. They don't have any Scrooge McDuck cash faults. Their money is all invested , i.e. put to work creating things that people want. > moralists ... capitalists History shows us that societies based on morals (religious, ideological) fare extremely poorly compared with societies based on rights (free markets). Like it or not, for a large, prosperous society you must h…

Walter, as you know I respect your point of view on the merits of the market in this business: God knows you’ve got about double my experience in it (and the multiple on impact is some larger coefficient I can’t even eyeball) and your opinion is logically robust, as we’ve debated before.

You’ve previously argued for the merits of e.g. the Gates fortune, and as someone who went head-to-head with MSFT in the springtime of its excellence and I’m inclined to believe the guy who was there.

In your opinion, which you know I respect as much as any hacker living, did Altman build anything or do anything of value to be a billionaire off AirBnB stock certainly less than 3, probably less than one year after Loopt was sold at a loss with Conway’s finger on the scales?

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#352

Post by jdross »

juped wrote: post #112
wyldfire wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Believe it or not sama actually delivered something believable and actionable to the general masses while being the CEO of OAI I guess there's no way to know this but how much better than the "Null CEO" did he actually do? What if he happened to preside over a successful company that would've performed as well or better without him?

The null CEO has a lot of value. If you could guarantee someone would be the null CEO, they'd be an instant hire for many enterprises. What you have to avoid is someone worse than the null CEO holding the position. I think Altman is worse than the null CEO; others may draw their own conclusions, but the bar for CEO quality isn't "much better than the null CEO".

Would it be fair to say you’ve never been a CEO of 20+ person organization and don’t have much of an idea of what that job entails, as a “craft” in its own right?

You’re talking about someone who led an organization from 0 to tens of billions in valuation, billions in revenue, recruited many unknown but now famous talent as well as famous talent which almost all mutinied when the board fired him, and bet on a technology that many people considered ridiculous. And your complaints are what? That you think he’s trying to regulatory capture the market? That he’s bad at PR, or managing PR-adjacent crises? That he was ruthless and one-sided in employee and other contracts?

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#353

Post by bmitc »

WalterBright wrote: post #346
thaumaturgy wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it might be time to turn back the clock a bit and revisit some of the things pg said way back when he was pitching Sam Altman to lead YC and the general reaction was "...who?" 2008: "You could parachute [Sam Altman] into an island full of cannibals and come back in 5 years and he'd be the king. If you're Sam Altman, you don't have to be profitable to convey to investors that you'll succeed with or without the…

> amoral wealth-hoarders They're not hoarding wealth. They don't have any Scrooge McDuck cash faults. Their money is all invested , i.e. put to work creating things that people want. > moralists ... capitalists History shows us that societies based on morals (religious, ideological) fare extremely poorly compared with societies based on rights (free markets). Like it or not, for a large, prosperous society you must h…

That's all very generous. Who actually needs greater than 90% of the startups coming out of Silicon Valley and the surrounding areas? Their products just get hyped up and shoved down peoples' throat.

And you're wrong. These people do have cash vaults, but they're other peoples' cash vaults. How else do you think they buy things? And they're living in their multi-million dollar mansions and yachts out of benevolence? Please.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#354

Post by Aunche »

florean wrote: post #298
Aunche wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Filed a formal complaint" with whom? For their own records. They can use it for justification for disciplinary action or legal ammunition. It is always useful to document things in writing. It's the same reason why companies will put you on PIP.

Why would you think this stuff wasn't in writing? Do you think the investigation OAI did into the board's actions was just relayed orally?[1] That the board's discussions where all done in conference calls and not in e-mail? Do you think that this documentation gets routinely released to the public or even employees? Before you throw around accusations of incompetence, you should probably have some shred of evidence.…

> Before you throw around accusations of incompetence, you should probably have some shred of evidence.

The evidence is in this interview. It sounded like the board basically let Altman walk all over them until they suddenly decided that they wanted to fire him, but by then it was too late. For example, if they had a thorough paper trail documenting all of his lies, they could threaten a lawsuit pressuring him to resign. If YC fired him, they likely would have used a similar strategy to pressure him to step down without any blowback.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#355

Post by rl3 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #308
jfoster wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like one press release may have changed the outcome entirely. Shouldn't the board be capable of agreeing on a press release among themselves?

Totally agree. The initial press release made it sound like Altman was guilty of borderline illegal malfeasance, which wasn't true. Without any more information, the world was left to speculate about what happened, and it came across to many as more of a "power struggle" or grudge match than fundamental concerns about the direction of OpenAI. While in retrospect I think the board's actions may have been warranted, th…

>Totally agree. The initial press release made it sound like Altman was guilty of borderline illegal malfeasance, which wasn't true.

This sounds bad enough to my layperson ears:

"Sam didn't inform the board that he owned the OpenAI startup fund, even though he constantly was claiming to be an independent board member with no financial interest in the company," she said.

I'm not a lawyer. Anyone with expertise care to clarify?

Also, wow:

https://medium.com/@leagueplayer220/sam-altman-may-have-comm...

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#356

Post by TeMPOraL »

zer00eyz wrote: post #252
m3kw9 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also ironic people jumping to attack Altman from every negative article about him without knowing all the details and the contexts

His own sister has nothing positive to say about him. The man has enough money to take care of his own, and he isnt. It's a bad look.

Do you know "all the details and the contexts" of that case?

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#357

Post by root_axis »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #157
pdonis wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you tell them so, in a meeting with all board members present, and argue your position in good faith. You don't lie to them. You certainly don't scheme behind the back of a board member you don't agree with to try to get them fired.

And if you realize there's no way to convince them that they are wrong? But it's a matter of survival of the entire universe?

> But it's a matter of survival of the entire universe?

This type of delusional thinking can be used to justify anything.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#358

Post by [deleted] »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #334
tibbar wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had the answer there before you dismissed it -- the board agreed to bring Sam Altman back before resigning because of massive pressure campaign that involved 90%+ of employees threatening to resign, and Microsoft (which has OpenAI's IP rights) offering to hire them all immediately. This included the company's key leadership. The organization was unraveling overnight. This was far past the tipping point of "a few…

> the board agreed to bring Sam Altman back before resigning because of massive pressure campaign that involved 90%+ of employees threatening to resign, and Microsoft... But, what kind of Wild West is this? It's all so unhinged and strange. There are no NDAs, non-competes or other impediments? MS just guts OpenAI at its whim? > there would have been no OpenAI left to preside over. ...If MS can do this, then there's a…

[deleted]

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#359

Post by pests »

Auracle wrote: post #229
Teever wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it's pretty wild that more people don't talk about that given how much time people spend gossiping about him like he was a tabloid celebrity.

I have no horse in this race but I’m glad that - for once - people aren’t taking claims with absolutely no evidence seriously. That’s no way to function as a society. For all we know she could be jealous, have mental issues, or have a different bone to pick with him and thought that’d be the best way to hurt him. If I had his money I could see some of my own relatives doing similar things after being denied handouts,…

Oh okay then we should just dismiss it?

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#360

Post by benreesman »

bmitc wrote: post #353
WalterBright wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> amoral wealth-hoarders They're not hoarding wealth. They don't have any Scrooge McDuck cash faults. Their money is all invested , i.e. put to work creating things that people want. > moralists ... capitalists History shows us that societies based on morals (religious, ideological) fare extremely poorly compared with societies based on rights (free markets). Like it or not, for a large, prosperous society you must h…

That's all very generous. Who actually needs greater than 90% of the startups coming out of Silicon Valley and the surrounding areas? Their products just get hyped up and shoved down peoples' throat. And you're wrong. These people do have cash vaults, but they're other peoples' cash vaults. How else do you think they buy things? And they're living in their multi-million dollar mansions and yachts out of benevolence?…

[flagged]
Post reply on HN